Divorce possible. How can I prevent her from moving the kids?

[GrowUp!]

I am not sure that I agree with everybody here.....at least on the viableness of him being able to keep her and the kids in CA.

here you go again. It does not matter that you "agree" or not. The LEGAL stuff matters. And you know what you can do with the "what I have seen" crap you like to say.

He admits that he has no family in CA. He also admits that the kids have a large extended family in FL.

Doesn't matter. The family in FL thing was brought up because of his fears she would take them down there.

Obviously the judge can't give him primary custody in order to keep the kids in CA, because he has to be gone from CA 10-15 days per month.

Is there case law that SPECIFICALLY states that??

The judge can't force mom to live in CA, the judge can only force the kids to live there, and the judge can't do that unless the judge is willing to give dad primary custody if mom chooses to move anyway. Which obviously the judge can't do in this case.

I would agree with everybody else if he wasn't spending 10-15 days a month in Hawaii.

But what the OP hasn't mentioned -- which is exactly why I told him it WILL have to be addressed -- is if this 10-15 days is flexible or set/can not change. Is it all weekdays or some weekdays-into-weekends, every other week, etc? It could be possible that it won't have an detrimental effect at all.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

4AI, aside from the childish rantings going on, there are several things you need to do now to prepare.

1. If you feel strongly that your wife will take the children to florida, then file now for a legal separation including prohibiting the wife from removing the children from the jurisdiction of california. (you can't do anything about HER sole child).

2. If you move to divorce, prepare now for the children's care while you are on the road. If you have the funds, a nanny, relative or other child care can be arranged.

3. Work with your employer to limit the number of weekdays away from the mainland.

4. perpare a family action plan which allows her frequent and continuing visitation but not the expense falling on you because she will be the one moving.

5. The minute you read this, hire an attorney to file the separation.

NO ONE here can tell you how a judge will rule. HOWEVER, there are things you can do now to protect yourself and your children and to guarantee your parental rights. The most important action is to make sure california retains jurisdiction over the divorce AND the children.

 

[ezmarelda]

in addition to what BB said...

3040. (a) Custody should be granted in the following order of
preference according to the best interest of the child as provided in
Sections 3011 and 3020:
(1) To both parents jointly pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with
Section 3080) or to either parent. In making an order granting
custody to either parent, the court shall consider, among other
factors, which parent is more likely to allow the child frequent and
continuing contact with the noncustodial parent, consistent with
Section 3011 and 3020, and shall not prefer a parent as custodian
because of that parent's sex. The court, in its discretion, may
require the parents to submit to the court a plan for the
implementation of the custody order. (2) If to neither parent, to the person or persons in whose home
the child has been living in a wholesome and stable environment.
(3) To any other person or persons deemed by the court to be
suitable and able to provide adequate and proper care and guidance
for the child.
(b) This section establishes neither a preference nor a
presumption for or against joint legal custody, joint physical
custody, or sole custody, but allows the court and the family the
widest discretion to choose a parenting plan that is in the best
interest of the child.

It seems that it would be difficult for Mom to convince a judge that moving the kiddos to FL is going to make it easy for them to see Dad on a reg. basis.

 

[casa]

4AI, aside from the childish rantings going on, there are several things you need to do now to prepare.

1. If you feel strongly that your wife will take the children to florida, then file now for a legal separation including prohibiting the wife from removing the children from the jurisdiction of california. (you can't do anything about HER sole child).

2. If you move to divorce, prepare now for the children's care while you are on the road. If you have the funds, a nanny, relative or other child care can be arranged.

3. Work with your employer to limit the number of weekdays away from the mainland.

4. perpare a family action plan which allows her frequent and continuing visitation but not the expense falling on you because she will be the one moving.

5. The minute you read this, hire an attorney to file the separation.

NO ONE here can tell you how a judge will rule. HOWEVER, there are things you can do now to protect yourself and your children and to guarantee your parental rights. The most important action is to make sure california retains jurisdiction over the divorce AND the children.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[casa]

I am not sure that I agree with everybody here.....at least on the viableness of him being able to keep her and the kids in CA.

He admits that he has no family in CA. He also admits that the kids have a large extended family in FL.

My impression that his entire working schedule is 10-15 days a month in Hawaii. While obviously the commute from FL to HI would be lengthier than from CA to HI, its not any less do-able than from CA to HI.

Obviously the judge can't give him primary custody in order to keep the kids in CA, because he has to be gone from CA 10-15 days per month. The judge can't force mom to live in CA, the judge can only force the kids to live there, and the judge can't do that unless the judge is willing to give dad primary custody if mom chooses to move anyway. Which obviously the judge can't do in this case.

I would agree with everybody else if he wasn't spending 10-15 days a month in Hawaii.

LdiJ~ I know many people get confused about CA law, some even referring to CA as an "island unto itself" re; Family Law...but you should know CA strongly favors joint custody and even moreso strongly favors the parent who will ensure "continuing contact" with the other parent. Although CA move-away laws have morphed...no judge in his Right mind would totally disregard the fact that Mom is moving only NOW(pending divorce) after YEARS of living in CA. CA has a very strong case for Jurisdiction by status quo alone. Think of the Child's Best Interests & how being uprooted from their entire life experience would/could affect them. When referring to 'support systems' one should not overlook the child's emotional support systems...ie; friends/neighbors et. al. The 'Best Interest' standard in CA tends to lean towards which situation will result in the LEAST amount of change/upheaval. Just an FYI.

 

[4AI]

The information and advice, I am receiving in this forum, are well above my expectations.
I read the posts very carefully and appreciate all opinions.
Although I am encouraged with the good news, I do want all sides represented.

I want my kids to stay in CA, that is my highest priority.
It is NOT for selfish reasons like my wife thinks. I want them to be raised in this great neighborhood that we live in, and attend the excellent schools that we are fortunate to have. My children have friends and attend many extra curricular activities, that may not be available in FL. My wife's position is, that nothing could be more important for them other than her family's love.
I am willing to be very flexible and negotiate in good faith with my wife.
I do not know the difference in rights between full (primary) custody and joint custody, I am a beginner at all this.
What I am willing to do, is keep the kids while in CA, which is at least half the time, never less, often more. I have a very flexible schedule. I am off, for a minimum of 15, up to 20 days in a row, per month. I do not expect to keep them more than half the time. Neither the whole time I am in CA, unless agreed upon by my wife. I just want equal rights.
I was even thinking that for the stability of the kids, we could have them live in one house, so that they will never have to endure the constant moves and changes in environment.
My wife and I, could take turns living in that home. When I am back she may go to FL.
I have travel privileges and would be willing to help her.
I want to avoid the kids moving to FL, period. My wife can do as she pleases.
As far as her son, he will be 18 in June. Guess what, he wants nothing to do with FL. He does not like it, but loves CA. He will move to a nearby smaller town for community college.
I sure hope that will be an indication for the judge, if her own son prefers to stay in CA.
Will it hurt me that I can travel for free?
Is that going to support my wife's argument, that HI-FL is only twice as far as HI-CA?
The welfare of the children can be argued, from either side.
What it may come down to is, my hardship of having to commute for another 5 hour flight, plus 5 time zones vs. my wife's need to be close to her "family".
I thought WE were her family!
Will the judge look at it that way?
Is this going to affect the custody battle?
Does my wife need full custody to move the kids without my consent, or could this be done even under joint custody?

I want this to be as amicable as possible and not drag each other down.
I hope to settle in mediation.
However, I do have some evidence that may show my wife has been very "lax" in raising her own son. There are issues with the boy's grades and activities that border the right side of the law...All that with his mother's blessing, but my disapproval.
Will showing such evidence be detrimental to my wife's case of being a "good" role model for our two children?
Will this desperate act help my case?

THANK YOU, so very much!

 

[casa]

The information and advice, I am receiving in this forum, are well above my expectations.
I read the posts very carefully and appreciate all opinions.
Although I am encouraged with the good news, I do want all sides represented.

I want my kids to stay in CA, that is my highest priority.
It is NOT for selfish reasons like my wife thinks. I want them to be raised in this great neighborhood that we live in, and attend the excellent schools that we are fortunate to have. My children have friends and attend many extra curricular activities, that may not be available in FL. My wife's position is, that nothing could be more important for them other than her family's love.
I am willing to be very flexible and negotiate in good faith with my wife.
I do not know the difference in rights between full (primary) custody and joint custody, I am a beginner at all this.
What I am willing to do, is keep the kids while in CA, which is at least half the time, never less, often more. I have a very flexible schedule. I am off, for a minimum of 15, up to 20 days in a row, per month. I do not expect to keep them more than half the time. Neither the whole time I am in CA, unless agreed upon by my wife. I just want equal rights.
I was even thinking that for the stability of the kids, we could have them live in one house, so that they will never have to endure the constant moves and changes in environment.
My wife and I, could take turns living in that home. When I am back she may go to FL.
I have travel privileges and would be willing to help her.
I want to avoid the kids moving to FL, period. My wife can do as she pleases.
As far as her son, he will be 18 in June. Guess what, he wants nothing to do with FL. He does not like it, but loves CA. He will move to a nearby smaller town for community college.
I sure hope that will be an indication for the judge, if her own son prefers to stay in CA.
Will it hurt me that I can travel for free?
Is that going to support my wife's argument, that HI-FL is only twice as far as HI-CA?
The welfare of the children can be argued, from either side.
What it may come down to is, my hardship of having to commute for another 5 hour flight, plus 5 time zones vs. my wife's need to be close to her "family".
I thought WE were her family!
Will the judge look at it that way?
Is this going to affect the custody battle?
Does my wife need full custody to move the kids without my consent, or could this be done even under joint custody?

I want this to be as amicable as possible and not drag each other down.
I hope to settle in mediation.
However, I do have some evidence that may show my wife has been very "lax" in raising her own son. There are issues with the boy's grades and activities that border the right side of the law...All that with his mother's blessing, but my disapproval.
Will showing such evidence be detrimental to my wife's case of being a "good" role model for our two children?
Will this desperate act help my case?

THANK YOU, so very much!

Depending on the 'evidence'...it could or could not be helpful. There's no way to say for certain. I will advise you that bashing the other parent is not helpful in the least...but factual evidence re; children's welfare is. Do you see what I'm saying?

You can afford an attorney~ Please go consult one ASAP. They will guide you from there. The priority at this point must be keeping the children in CA until the court can determine a Custody/Visitation ruling. Go retain an attorney NOW.

 

[acmb05]

Does my wife need full custody to move the kids without my consent, or could this be done even under joint custody?


THANK YOU, so very much!

Full or joint custody she would still need your or the courts permission to move.

No matter what you decide to do you must start these proceedings in California so that they retain jurisdiction.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Full or joint custody she would still need your or the courts permission to move.
.

Just to clarify...not correct IF the action is not begun in california or if she leaves now before any action in suit is begun. Although she can be ordered to return the children to the jurisdiction, at the present time she is not under control of the court.

 

[4AI]

Once I file this petition for separation (?) or other appropriate papers,
my wife will not be allowed to leave CA with the kids?
Is she obligated to remain in CA until the final ruling?
If she moves without my consent to FL, and I file the papers in CA where I will continue to reside, does it matter where she is physically, when our property and residency is still in CA. I thought it takes a full 12 months to establish legal residency in a new state.
Does our FL marriage have any effect on all this?
Does a separation lead to a divorce or can it stay as a legal separation?
What is legally, the difference between the two?
Do we own common property, file joint tax returns, same last name, under a separation?

Many thanks,
4AI

 

[casa]

Once I file this petition for separation (?) or other appropriate papers,
my wife will not be allowed to leave CA with the kids?
Is she obligated to remain in CA until the final ruling?
If she moves without my consent to FL, and I file the papers in CA where I will continue to reside, does it matter where she is physically, when our property and residency is still in CA. I thought it takes a full 12 months to establish legal residency in a new state.
Does our FL marriage have any effect on all this?
Does a separation lead to a divorce or can it stay as a legal separation?
What is legally, the difference between the two?
Do we own common property, file joint tax returns, same last name, under a separation?

Many thanks,
4AI

YES, if you file here in CA where you both reside...CA will have Jurisdiction and will issue an order preventing the removal of the children out of the state/county for any purposes other than traveling/vacation(s).

She is not obligated to remain here, but IS obligated to be here for any/all court hearings.

If she moves to FL and establishes residency there~ you both will be paying big bucks to fight Jurisdiction. Don't even go there, file NOW. Residency requirements vary from state to state and not all require 12 mos., in fact 6 mos. is a more common time frame.

Separation is just that...it leads to divorce only if you or she choose to file for divorce. If you choose to reconcile, then you can do that also. The 'terms' of your Separation are specific to what you both want to do with the property, etc. and can be handled in mediation. Do a Google search of Legal Separation in CA for more info. For tax purposes there is a specific guideline for Separated couples.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ~ I know many people get confused about CA law, some even referring to CA as an "island unto itself" re; Family Law...but you should know CA strongly favors joint custody and even moreso strongly favors the parent who will ensure "continuing contact" with the other parent. Although CA move-away laws have morphed...no judge in his Right mind would totally disregard the fact that Mom is moving only NOW(pending divorce) after YEARS of living in CA. CA has a very strong case for Jurisdiction by status quo alone. Think of the Child's Best Interests & how being uprooted from their entire life experience would/could affect them. When referring to 'support systems' one should not overlook the child's emotional support systems...ie; friends/neighbors et. al. The 'Best Interest' standard in CA tends to lean towards which situation will result in the LEAST amount of change/upheaval. Just an FYI.

I never said that CA wouldn't have jurisdiction. That's a given. However, if mom were determined to move and it came down to the kids either remaining in CA, or moving to FL, then it would be something like this: Kids remain in CA and live with a nanny 10-15 days a month, without either parent, and without any relatives in the area...or kids move to FL and live with a parent full time, with lots of extended family in the area.

Again, its that whole 10-15 days a month in Hawaii, that changes the nature of things as far as I am concerned.

 

[casa]

I never said that CA wouldn't have jurisdiction. That's a given. However, if mom were determined to move and it came down to the kids either remaining in CA, or moving to FL, then it would be something like this: Kids remain in CA and live with a nanny 10-15 days a month, without either parent, and without any relatives in the area...or kids move to FL and live with a parent full time, with lots of extended family in the area.

Again, its that whole 10-15 days a month in Hawaii, that changes the nature of things as far as I am concerned.

Dad's travel/work schedule did not previous preclude him from being active in the children's lives...and it still doesn't. Mom doesn't HAVE to move either. The child(ren) have established routines/bonds/familiarities where they are and that's relevant also.

 

[4AI]

Tha

... Kids remain in CA and live with a nanny 10-15 days a month, without either parent, and without any relatives in the area...or kids move to FL and live with a parent full time, with lots of extended family in the area.

My wife would NEVER move without the kids.
It is important to show that it is purely by choice that she WISHES to move.
She does NOT have to move to FL.
It is purely a lifestyle choice. She does not have any responsibilities in FL, like sick parents or employment.
If anything she has a young adult son in CA, and two minors with established ties.
She may threaten to move.
That would only happen if advised so by her attorney, for the sole purpose of claiming exactly the argument you aforementioned.
The situation we are in now is very volatile.
The balance is fragile and the scale may tip either way.
If any move is made, it will be in late June, after the school year is over.
By then I will be able to feel how things are progressing.
If they get worse, I will file separation papers to be safe.
This however will create a tremendous obstacle in reconciling.
I would like to avoid that at all cost.
My primary objective is to get back together.
The truth is, that as much as I would hate to move, I put my family above any personal hardship.
If our relationship improves, then I reluctantly have to agree to move, since she has indicated that she is NOT staying in CA.
This is a necessary compromise I have to make.
Is there anything we could sign that would prevent her from keeping the children in FL, if we later end up divorcing?
That by the way is my greatest fear. The one that makes me even more reluctant to move in the first place.
I believe that it may be too late, once I agree to move. Then FL, rather than CA, would be our home state.
Maybe I could draw a contract that specifically addresses that.
Namely, that in case of divorce, the children would return to CA.
Thus making the move to FL, a "trial period", not permanent.
Would a written agreement like this, if signed and agreed upon by both parties in CA, be enforceable in the State of FL?

Thank you.

 

[Astrolink]

To the original poster: Can you get a similar job in CA? It's your job in HI that is the biggest complication for custody.