He broke the order, can I suspend visitation?

[CourtClerk]

There is a BIG difference between alcohol abuse and consuming alcohol...

 

[stekkinekko]

There is a BIG difference between alcohol abuse and consuming alcohol...

Yes, there is. There is no proof that he has been drunk while my daughter is present. Just that he has drank while she is there.

So I am out of my mind to go that route?

I am just very worried, because it seems like the only way to accomplish anything, is to wait for something tragic to happen- I am trying like hell to find some sort of preventative measure I can take. He is an alcoholic. While it is not legally documented, me, his girlfriend, my whole family, and most of his family all agree that he is. I know that means nothing in the court room. The fact that he can't even go three days without drinking (while our daughter stays with him) is further evidence that he can't control his desire to drink.

Is there anything I can do? Any papers I can file? Any action I can take? I don't want to send my daughter away, not knowing if she is going to be safe, not knowing if her father is going to get trashed, drive drunk with her, pass out on the couch and leave her unattended, become violent... the possibilities keep me up at night when she's gone.

(If it seems like I'm overreacting, when we broke up I was granted a temporary PFA against him because of his drinking and violent tendencies. It was due to poor legal advice, because I could not afford good legal advice, that we dismissed the PFA at the hearing. I was told by the free lawyer at a local domestic violence program that I didn't have enough evidence of abuse, and that he saw cases like mine thrown out all the time. He told me that I would end up getting completely screwed over, so I should dismiss it and try to settle. The Magistrate asked me on another occasion why I had dismissed the PFA, and when I explained what the free lawyer had told me, the Magistrate basically told me that I wouldn't have had any problem being granted a PFA. But by then it was too late.)

Anyway, as I asked above- any advice?

 

[gr8rn]

If I were you, I would take what you have and go talk to an attorney. A local attorney will know more about the judges in your local court and whether or not there is anything you can do. A consult should be free, and you can decide from there how to proceed. Don't try doing this yourself unless you are very familiar with the rules.

I've been where you are and I know how hard it is. You just have to hope that he loves the child enough to have some common sense, and hope the girlfriend sticks around, because she appears to be level headed. Perhaps you can ask her to look out for your daughter and let you know if there are any problems. Good luck.

 

[mistoffolees]

Yes, there is. There is no proof that he has been drunk while my daughter is present. Just that he has drank while she is there.

So I am out of my mind to go that route?

I am just very worried, because it seems like the only way to accomplish anything, is to wait for something tragic to happen- I am trying like hell to find some sort of preventative measure I can take. He is an alcoholic. While it is not legally documented, me, his girlfriend, my whole family, and most of his family all agree that he is. I know that means nothing in the court room. The fact that he can't even go three days without drinking (while our daughter stays with him) is further evidence that he can't control his desire to drink.

That's BS. Why should he give up drinking when his daughter is with him. I often have a beer when my daughter is at my house and that's perfectly legal and reasonable.

Now, if you have evidence to take to court that shows that he's an alcoholic, you could use it. However, that has to be real evidence. His GF and family's testimony would be useless in that context (unless any of them are licensed medical health professionals and even then it would not likely be admitted).

Now, if people are willing to testify that they saw him driving when he was too drunk to stand up, that MIGHT help.

Alternatively, there is little you can do without evidence. Possibly ask for a guardian ad litem, but there's only so much they can do without evidence, either.

 

[stekkinekko]

If I were you, I would take what you have and go talk to an attorney. A local attorney will know more about the judges in your local court and whether or not there is anything you can do. A consult should be free, and you can decide from there how to proceed. Don't try doing this yourself unless you are very familiar with the rules.

I've been where you are and I know how hard it is. You just have to hope that he loves the child enough to have some common sense, and hope the girlfriend sticks around, because she appears to be level headed. Perhaps you can ask her to look out for your daughter and let you know if there are any problems. Good luck.

I used to trust his girlfriend, until the night I saw that email he sent her. When she first told me that he drank while my daughter was there, I told her that the court order stated that he wasn't allowed to. She said that they were really sorry, and that they hadn't realized the order said anything about him not drinking. She said that he would stop, and there wouldn't be any further problems.

Then I saw that she was getting him alcohol to drink that night. I sent her a text message to see if she was going to be honest with me or not. I asked her if they were going to drink while my daughter was there. She told me that he wasn't going to. So she outright lied to me. Not to mention, she is a woman dating an abuser- having experience in that same position I know that she will do anything to justify his behavior- and that my daughter's well-being isn't always going to take priority over him and what he wants. That is already clear in the fact that she knows he has an alcohol problem and frequently becomes violent while intoxicated, yet she still enables him to drink while my daughter is there.

Thank you for your understanding. This is definitely a hard place to be.

 

[CourtClerk]

I often have a beer when my daughter is at my house and that's perfectly legal and reasonable.

Have a beer????

I'm more prone to take a couple of shots and chase it with a stronger drink. Still not drunk... still doesn't make me a bad parent. Just one who knows how to make one hell of a drink.

 

[stekkinekko]

That's BS. Why should he give up drinking when his daughter is with him. I often have a beer when my daughter is at my house and that's perfectly legal and reasonable.

Because the court order we currently have states that neither party is to consume alcohol during, or 24 hours prior to a visit. I'm sure you can control yourself, and have a couple beers while your daughter is there with you. Which is probably why you don't have a court order telling you not to.

 

[CJane]

That's BS. Why should he give up drinking when his daughter is with him.

Um, because it's in the order? Which means a judge thought it was enough of a concern that it was seen to be in the best interests of the child that Dad not consume alcohol immediately prior to, or during, visits.

OP - Dad is in contempt. You can file a show cause, and go that route. Dad is likely to receive a slap on the wrist if you can prove your case.

Tell the girlfriend that next time she's stupid enough to hang out w/dad while he's drunk, and then have a big ol fight with him, to go ahead and leave - and then call the police and tell them that there's a violent and unstable drunk and an 18 month old child at XXX address.

She won't, of course, because she loooooves him, but it's really your only bet.

 

[stekkinekko]

OP - Dad is in contempt. You can file a show cause, and go that route. Dad is likely to receive a slap on the wrist if you can prove your case.

Tell the girlfriend that next time she's stupid enough to hang out w/dad while he's drunk, and then have a big ol fight with him, to go ahead and leave - and then call the police and tell them that there's a violent and unstable drunk and an 18 month old child at XXX address.

She won't, of course, because she loooooves him, but it's really your only bet.

Do you think that he will just get a slap on the wrist? I was hoping that maybe he'd have to have supervised visits until he completes alcohol counseling or something like that?

And the last time they had a huge fight and she left, I didn't find out about it until the following day. I was pretty scared for my daughter because this was the first time in her life that she was alone with him. When I tried to call him, he didn't answer his phone. For the whole day I couldn't get in touch with him, or find out how my daughter was doing. I had thought that going over to check on him might get me into trouble (harassment or something like that). And of course, no matter how much I wanted to believe everything was fine, all I could think about was worst case scenario stuff. Thank God it turned out ok- He called his Mom to come and help him with our daughter.

 

[penelope10]

I would think that she would have to prove that Dad actually consumed said beer while he was with the child. Just because one buys beer etc. on a particular day does not mean that they are going to consume it on that same day. Of course, it would make it much easier if the gf would testify to that fact. If their relationship is now going well then it's doubtful that she's going to do that.

I still have whiskey, vokda, etc. that i bought last September when Sissy got married. I also may buy an occasional bottle of wine and have it in the fridge for a couple of weeks before it is consumed.

So does anybody want to come over for a party and help me get rid of this wedding booze? (How many more days till Cinco de Mayo?)

 

[stekkinekko]

I would think that she would have to prove that Dad actually consumed said beer while he was with the child. However, just because one buys beer etc. on a particular day does not mean that they are going to consume it on that same day. Of course, it would make it much easier if the gf would testify to that fact. If their relationship is now going well then it's doubtful that she's going to do that.

The message said "Can you get regular beer? I can't drink this dark stuff tonight." That gave me the impression that he was planning on drinking the regular beer that night. Although, I do understand that impressions don't really hold up in court... What would matter is the impression that it gives the judge.

Half of me wishes that she would leave him- then she would be on my side and testify against him. The other half needs her to stay because she is the one who actually cares for my daughter while she visits. He is the kind of guy who doesn't think it's up to a man to take care of a child- "that's woman's work" kind of thing. I've got stories... I'm sure we all have loads of them. But they're not exactly relevant to this situation.

 

[mistoffolees]

Um, because it's in the order? Which means a judge thought it was enough of a concern that it was seen to be in the best interests of the child that Dad not consume alcohol immediately prior to, or during, visits.

OP - Dad is in contempt. You can file a show cause, and go that route. Dad is likely to receive a slap on the wrist if you can prove your case.

Or Dad may well get that clause thrown out. It's likely unenforceable.

 

[stekkinekko]

Or Dad may well get that clause thrown out. It's likely unenforceable.

Because the fact that the court told him "Hey you, don't drink while you're daughter's there." And he said "I don't want to wait the three days to have a drink, so I'm going to break this court order. Having a drink is more important than the law."- this proves he doesn't have a drinking problem?

 

[futuredust]

Because the fact that the court told him "Hey you, don't drink while you're daughter's there." And he said "I don't want to wait the three days to have a drink, so I'm going to break this court order. Having a drink is more important than the law."- this proves he doesn't have a drinking problem?

You have no physical proof that you can bring before the court to prove that dad is/was/will consume alcohol while the child is in his care. As has already been said, a couple of times.

 

[BL]

Or Dad may well get that clause thrown out. It's likely unenforceable.

On what legal basis do you make this statement ?