dr accessing arrest record to avoid giving prescriptions

[CreativeBlock]

I probably simply said wrong...I meant that in the back of the doc's mind, he's going to recal a flyer he saw that said "John Q Has an arrest record for Rx abuse" and then considers that info along with any other relevant details when he prescribes XYZ drug for John Q.

True. But that's different than calling other physicians and giving his unsolicited opinion based on those flyers.

 

[justalayman]

CreativeBlock;2724756]

Essentially, he's given the patient's name and implied the patient's medical history and given a consultation without permission.

Ok,what would that medical history be then? and a consultation without permission? What are you even talking about?

ETA: At the very least, he's violated doctor-patient confidentiality. That's an ethics violation of the most despicable sort.

again, nothing involving confidentiality mentioned here. Here related the criminal record (public record). I suspect the criminal record involves forged prescription, doctor shopping, or some other related crime.

As well, the OP most likely does not know what the PCP actually related to these other doctor and is likely only guessing what was said.

the problem is; the OP has not given enough info to even really guess if the doctor did anything wrong. Did the doctor just open up the phone book and call every doctor in their? Since this doc is a PCP, I would suspect what is more likely is the PCP contacted specialists he has referred the OP to. If so, there was a HIPAA release signed that allows the PCP to release medical information to the other doctors.

 

[CreativeBlock]

CreativeBlock;2724756]

Ok,what would that medical history be then?

Wouldn't it be implied that this patient had been, at one time at least, legitimately prescribed painkillers?

and a consultation without permission? What are you even talking about?.

What else would you call a doctor speaking in a professional capacity to another doctor?

And I am assuming that the patient did not give permission for his doctor to speak to the other doctor ...

again, nothing involving confidentiality mentioned here. Here related the criminal record (public record). I suspect the criminal record involves forged prescription, doctor shopping, or some other related crime.

Confidentiality would be violated if, as I am assuming above, the physician in question implies that his patient has been on painkillers. Even intimating abuse can intimate a medical condition in and of itself.

As well, the OP most likely does not know what the PCP actually related to these other doctor and is likely only guessing what was said.

True.

the problem is; the OP has not given enough info to even really guess if the doctor did anything wrong. Did the doctor just open up the phone book and call every doctor in their?

That was the impression I, rightly or wrongly, assumed from the OP's post. And that's the impression I've been basing my opinion on.

Since this doc is a PCP, I would suspect what is more likely is the PCP contacted specialists he has referred the OP to. If so, there was a HIPAA release signed that allows the PCP to release medical information to the other doctors.

That follows.

But again, I'm basing my opinion on the "opening the phone book and calling all the local physicians" theme (since the OP said that no doctor in town will see the patient ... or something to that effect). That would, even if not a strict HIPAA violation, be an ethics violation.

Now, I will stress that my ethics courses were, at the time, more heavily emphasizing the ethics guidelines of research on test subjects. That may make a difference.

 

[justalayman]

But again, I'm basing my opinion on the "opening the phone book and calling all the local physicians" theme (since the OP said that no doctor in town will see the patient ... or something to that effect). That would, even if not a strict HIPAA violation, be an ethics violation.

You seem to be a reasonable person. Do you really believe a doctor would simply call every doctor in some self determined radius to alert them of this problem? Dang, I know doctors that have trouble communicating with other doctors in other practices that are literally across the hall from each other. I would think such a blanket notification is simply unrealistic.

I'm not saying there wasn't a HIPAA violation. It's just that from what has been presented, I don't see one.

The other thing one should take into account is the person making these claims.

There was a thread on another forum where the OP claimed the doctor in an ER specifically wrote a scrip so it would appear to be altered just so the OP would get caught and prosecuted. I think paranoia is common with large doses of certain pain medications.

 

[Proserpina]

There was a thread on another forum where the OP claimed the doctor in an ER specifically wrote a scrip so it would appear to be altered just so the OP would get caught and prosecuted. I think paranoia is common with large doses of certain pain medications.

Oy vey - I remember that thread!

 

[CreativeBlock]

You seem to be a reasonable person. Do you really believe a doctor would simply call every doctor in some self determined radius to alert them of this problem? Dang, I know doctors that have trouble communicating with other doctors in other practices that are literally across the hall from each other. I would think such a blanket notification is simply unrealistic.

You have me there. I've dealt with doctors who didn't even realize there were other doctors in their own field several doors down.

The other thing one should take into account is the person making these claims.

But I want to stress that I was taking the OP at face value. To be blunt, I've not been here long enough to have formed any sort of situational bias ~ meaning, a site like this, my initial thought is that if they've put enough thought into where they're posting, they're likely not ... well ... too unbalanced.

Also, I tend to be logically minded. And in that vein, it makes no sense to me why people would lie or exaggerate when they need help, as it would obviously affect the advice they're given and be ultimately unproductive.

So, obviously, if we're speaking from a hypothetical situation, I'd have to say there was an ethics violation (at least). If we're speaking from a likely situation, I'd have to say the person in question is paranoiac.

There was a thread on another forum where the OP claimed the doctor in an ER specifically wrote a scrip so it would appear to be altered just so the OP would get caught and prosecuted. I think paranoia is common with large doses of certain pain medications.

Um. I don't think I could stand to see that one.

How often do those types of posters post here?! Is it that often? I've noticed a few ... "off" posters here that seem to be regulars, and I have to say: their lack of intelligence scares me a bit. :/

 

[cbg]

The problem here is that people speak from their own perceptions, which may or may not reflect reality. It may be out of some form of emotional or mental incapacity; it may be out of their own sense of ego or lack thereof; or it may simply be due to a lack of knowledge of how their situation fits into a larger picture.

As an example, in another area of this forum I have been speaking over the last couple of days with a poster who is quite convinced that an agency he has been dealing with lied to him because of the way a particular situation panned out. He has no experience in the type of work that the agency performs (I do) so he is completely unaware of some of the other reasons that might accomplish the same affect. His perception is that the agency lied not because there is any real reason to believe they did, but because his experience does not provide him with any other possible reasons, even though the other reasons exist.

We all bring our own perceptions and "color filters" to a situation; it's not always possible to take the OP's at face value.

 

[CreativeBlock]

The problem here is that people speak from their own perceptions, which may or may not reflect reality. It may be out of some form of emotional or mental incapacity; it may be out of their own sense of ego or lack thereof; or it may simply be due to a lack of knowledge of how their situation fits into a larger picture.

CBG, I'd like to respond to this privately, if I may. Do you mind?

 

[cbg]

Not at all. Feel free.

 

[judylabrador]

more information

this patient has had 22 major surgeries in the last 20 years and his primary care dr DID allienate other Drs to refuse care to this man. I want to know if he could sue this Dr for breaking patient confidentiallity because he now has NO medication for the pain that he is in. The arrest was more than two years ago and was for illegal drugs that were not in his system and he did his time. There was never anything in his system that was illegal. The Dr said "he was tired of writing for pain medication" for this man. He then proceeded to humilliate and tell the patient that he made these calls in order to not have to deal with him anymore. The Dr also has given another prescription for pain medication to someone who was not even in the office at the time. He gave it to a medicare patient and used his records to pay the office visit. I want to take him down for the pain he has caused and the damage he has done to this mans reputation even tho it was not the greatest. How can I do that?

Please feel free to e-mail me about this

 

[CreativeBlock]

this patient has had 22 major surgeries in the last 20 years and his primary care dr DID allienate other Drs to refuse care to this man. I want to know if he could sue this Dr for breaking patient confidentiallity because he now has NO medication for the pain that he is in.

Here's the sticky part: can you prove that he was malicious in his intent? Viably prove it?

And, can you prove that prescribing pain medication is the best for this patient? Not always is pain medication the best option, unless we're discussing a terminal illness.

The arrest was more than two years ago and was for illegal drugs that were not in his system and he did his time. There was never anything in his system that was illegal. The Dr said "he was tired of writing for pain medication" for this man.

The doctor cannot be faulted if he felt that a lack of medication were the best course of treatment. Each doctor and his methods are different. They each have their own school of thought.

You'd have to be able to prove that his refusal was intended maliciously or without regard to the patient.

But I have to say that the doctor stating that he was "tired of writing for pain medication" for the patient, it sounds as though the potential for addiction (and the doctor's wish to forestall such) is likely. At the very least, it implies that the patient was on multiple medications for an extended amount of time.

He then proceeded to humilliate and tell the patient that he made these calls in order to not have to deal with him anymore.

You'd have to prove the intent to humiliate. You'd also have to prove that the reason the other doctors won't prescribe pain meds for him is because of that phone call. You'd also have to prove that those phone calls occurred.

The Dr also has given another prescription for pain medication to someone who was not even in the office at the time. He gave it to a medicare patient and used his records to pay the office visit.

That is not illegal. That is under the purview of the doctor. If the patient is established and a pre-existing condition exists, it's simply a matter of convenience for the patient.

And if a scrip was written it constitutes a consultation and he can certainly bill for his time.

I want to take him down for the pain he has caused and the damage he has done to this mans reputation even tho it was not the greatest. How can I do that?

You'd have to prove conclusively that the events occurred as you stated them. And you'd have to prove conclusively that it was done with malice. And you'd have to prove that his phone call caused the other doctors to form a bias.

May I ask why he can't seek treatment elsewhere? Certainly the patient doesn't live in the middle of a desert or militarized zone where he can't travel elsewhere (another town, city, etc).

I would find it extremely hard to believe that every single doctor in town could be swayed by a single phone consultation. You can't get 10 people in a single room to agree on what type of pizza to order, much less get several independent physicians to agree on a single course of treatment.

How sure are you that this all happened as you say it did? How can you be so sure?

 

[justalayman]

=judylabrador;2725474]this patient has had 22 major surgeries in the last 20 years and his primary care dr DID allienate other Drs to refuse care to this man.

what other doctors? Other doctors this PCP has referred the patient to? If so, there is a duty for the PCP to relay pertinent information to the doctors he refers patients to. How he does it and exactly what he relays could cause his actions to be improper but so far, not seeing anything that would be truly restricted.

THe I want to know if he could sue this Dr for breaking patient confidentiallity because he now has NO medication for the pain that he is in.

so, just how many doctors has this PCP contacted? How many doctors in this guys area all together?

The arrest was more than two years ago and was for illegal drugs that were not in his system and he did his time. There was never anything in his system that was illegal.

so why did he have the illegal drugs? or was it for attempting to get drugs illegally such as doctor shopping or even a fraudulent scrip?

The Dr said "he was tired of writing for pain medication" for this man

I doubt this happened overnight. Very likely, the PCP suggested a pain specialist to help avoid your friend from getting hooked on drugs. Has your friend been to a pain specialist?

He then proceeded to humilliate and tell the patient that he made these calls in order to not have to deal with him anymore

so he hurt your friends feelings. Good doctor. Personally, I insist my doctors be very blunt with me. It helps prevent misunderstandings.

The Dr also has given another prescription for pain medication to someone who was not even in the office at the time.

and? First, how do you know this and second, what is the problem with this? If you are going to claim there is a problem with something, you need to explain why it is a problem.

He gave it to a medicare patient and used his records to pay the office visit.

you need to explain this. Whose records and what office visit? You said there was no office visit.

I want to take him down for the pain he has caused and the damage he has done to this mans reputation even tho it was not the greatest. How can I do that?

You don't seem to have any claim in this situation so you can't do anything. If your friend believes he was aggrieved, he needs to go speak with a lawyer who can review all of this mess in detail and try to determine if there actually was anything improper.

 

[judylabrador]

The person was there signed in as a patient but it was not for them it was to get a prescription for someone else that was not a patient the Dr used their medicare number to file for a visit for the person not there for themself. The Dr that was called was a pain management dr but was NOT seeing the man nor was the GP asked to give a referral. He took it upon himself to call without an ok from anyone.

I know this man and his medical records explain it all. He has had his hips replaced 3 times each side, 18 back surgeries, 4way heart by-pass and both shoulders reconstructed He also has the Depuy ASR hip so he is having terrible pain with them now. I fear that the depression from what has happened with the GP and the pain is going to cause him to commit suicide! It is unfair that one mistake more than 2 years ago should dictate what happens to him now. I am just looking into getting him some help legally so we have something to show that would change this Drs mind about treatment. He is the only GP here and has no compassion and it has put a hardship on myself and the patient.

Thanks for your help and thougts about this

 

[judylabrador]

to add about the prescription written for a non patient. It was givin for methadone and the person was not even a patient with the Dr nor was an exam given or recordings of what was done.....just proof at the pharmacy where it was filled. that went on for almost a year. Payment made by medicare are also of record that the charge was for someone other than the person getting the prescription.

 

[justalayman]

=judylabrador;2725706]The person was there signed in as a patient but it was not for them it was to get a prescription for someone else that was not a patient the Dr used their medicare number to file for a visit for the person not there for themself.

I don't see how you would know any of that.

The Dr that was called was a pain management dr but was NOT seeing the man nor was the GP asked to give a referral. He took it upon himself to call without an ok from anyone.

So now we are down to the GP called one doctor and alerted him/her. That is a far cry from every doctor in town. Depending what was said, this may or may not be a problem. Your friend can file a HIPAA complaint. The directions are here:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html

It is unfair that one mistake more than 2 years ago should dictate what happens to him now.

why? What happened ONLY 2 years ago is very indicative of what kind of a person he is.

I am just looking into getting him some help legally so we have something to show that would change this Drs mind about treatment.

then file a HIPAA complaint. Other than that, start calling attorneys and interviewing them. I still don't see a case but obviously I don't know everything about the situation.

He is the only GP here and has no compassion and it has put a hardship on myself and the patient.

You must live in a really really small town.