Video Recording in Public

[TedMann]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.

I understand that it is legal to video record people and on duty police in public in California, but can you direct me to the specific laws so I can reference them if I get harassed by anyone? Thanks.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California.

I understand that it is legal to video record people and on duty police in public in California, but can you direct me to the specific laws so I can reference them if I get harassed by anyone? Thanks.

Here is a link to the Digital Media Law Project's information on recording laws in California: http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-recording-law

It is not only the recording alone that needs to be considered but what is done with the video once recorded.

 

[TedMann]

Thanks for the information. I'm not talking about recording private conversations, but recording in public. All fifty states have ruled it is legal to record anyone in public, whether they consent to it or not, because we lose the right to privacy the moment we enter the public. And it is legal in all fifty states to record on duty police. I am looking for the specific laws that give me this, other than the First Amendment (although this is good too).

 

[CdwJava]

In CA video is okay, but audio can cause you problems even if recorded in public under certain circumstances.

AND, certain types of video taping can find you in violation of other laws not covered in our privacy laws.

For CA check PC 630, et seq. (particular PC 632)

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...sion=&title=15.&part=1.&chapter=1.5.&article=

Perhaps if you stated what kinds of things you intend to wander around recording we could be more specific?

 

[quincy]

... All fifty states have ruled it is legal to record anyone in public, whether they consent to it or not, because we lose the right to privacy the moment we enter the public ...

What I have quoted above of your post is not true in any state.

I agree with CdwJava that we need more information on what exactly you are intending to do before we can direct you to the laws that may apply.

 

[TedMann]

In CA video is okay, but audio can cause you problems even if recorded in public under certain circumstances.

I'm sure it can cause problems, but I'm only interested in what the law says. Some clothing people wear can cause problems and be offensive. Nevertheless, they have the right to wear those close.

AND, certain types of video taping can find you in violation of other laws not covered in our privacy laws.

Such as? Cite your source.

For CA check PC 630, et seq. (particular PC 632)

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...sion=&title=15.&part=1.&chapter=1.5.&article=

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Perhaps if you stated what kinds of things you intend to wander around recording we could be more specific?

People in public places. I already know it's legal. I only need the specific laws showing it is legal. I am already familiar with the First Amendment.

 

[TedMann]

What I have quoted above of your post is not true in any state.

Every state and federal Circuit Court to rule on this question has concluded that filming the police in public is First Amendment protected. You might ask, "What about the 12 states who have all party consent laws that require all parties to agree to be recorded?" The courts in these states ruled that those laws do not apply to citizens who are openly recording the police in public. Massachusetts and Illinois have statutes on their book that make it illegal to record the police in public, but in 2011 the First Circuit Court of Appeals declared their law to be unconstitutional. In 2012, Illinois did the exact same thing. The laws have been invalidated. Therefore, in the United States, citizens ALWAYS have the right to openly record the police in public. So if you are recording police and they tell you to put your camera away, that is an unlawful order.

As far a recording anyone in public in California, again, it's perfectly legal.

 

[TedMann]

What I have quoted above of your post is not true in any state.

That statement is patently false. "As a general rule, both the public and the press have a right to record government officials or matters of public interest in a public place. But it is one thing for a photographer to know his or her rights when recording public officials and quite another for security guards, police officers and government officials to be aware of or even care about those rights."

 

[quincy]

Every state and federal Circuit Court to rule on this question has concluded that filming the police in public is First Amendment protected. You might ask, "What about the 12 states who have all party consent laws that require all parties to agree to be recorded?" The courts in these states ruled that those laws do not apply to citizens who are openly recording the police in public. Massachusetts and Illinois have statutes on their book that make it illegal to record the police in public, but in 2011 the First Circuit Court of Appeals declared their law to be unconstitutional. In 2012, Illinois did the exact same thing. The laws have been invalidated. Therefore, in the United States, citizens ALWAYS have the right to openly record the police in public. So if you are recording police and they tell you to put your camera away, that is an unlawful order.

As far a recording anyone in public in California, again, it's perfectly legal.

I do not know where you are getting your information but it is not entirely correct. And what I wrote that you are now questioning IS correct. Please reread what you quoted and note the "As a general rule .." part, for one thing.

Here are links with information for you to read, the first to the Digital Media Law Project on recording police officers, the second to the ACLU , and the third to NOLO ("Recording the Police Legal?").

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-police-officers-and-public-officials

https://www.aclupa.org/issues/polic...-and-observe-police/taking-photos-and-audio//

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/recording-the-police-legal.html

There have always been limits to First Amendment rights. If you learn the laws and respect the limits, you should not be harassed when recording. But you should heed the ACLU's advice if confronted by the police.

 

[CdwJava]

I'm sure it can cause problems, but I'm only interested in what the law says. Some clothing people wear can cause problems and be offensive. Nevertheless, they have the right to wear those close.

Okay, fine. Recording audio can cause LEGAL problems, can be inadmissible, and even can be a criminal act.

Such as? Cite your source.

Upskirts videos, for one. Recording minors for prurient purposes for another. I can cite the penal code if you'd like, but until you care to enlighten us what sort of recording you would LIKE to do, I'm not all that inclined to look for random violations of the law.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Really? The LAW (which you asked about) that concerns recording is "irrelevant?"

What exactly do you intend to record?

People in public places. I already know it's legal. I only need the specific laws showing it is legal. I am already familiar with the First Amendment.

Once again, in general, it IS legal. See the previously mentioned Penal Codes.

There are, however, exceptions to that. If you'd care to tell us what you are recording, we can be more specific. If you will be filming under women's skirts, that can be a crime. If you will be filming little girls at a cheer competition to get your jollies, that can also be a crime (neither of which are found in PC 630 et seq). Until you tell us what you plan to do all we can tell you is that it is generally lawful for video, but there are exceptions. And AUDIO recording can also be a problem as mentioned in the aforementioned code section.

There's no law that says you CAN do a thing the law tends to restrict activity not permit it.

 

[quincy]

... Some clothing people wear can cause problems and be offensive. Nevertheless, they have the right to wear those close. ...

What I have quoted above is also not true in any state, if by "the right to wear" you mean "the right to wear without consequences."

The time, the place, and the manner can all matter, in clothing attire and in recording (and in any other form of expression). There can be consequences if you do not take into consideration the when's, where's, who's, how's, what's and why's - and some of these consequences are legal ones.

You are being presented with the laws and links to reliable sources that detail these laws.

If you want to tell us what exactly you want to do, we can tell you how likely you are to be harassed for doing it. But nothing can prevent you from being harassed (by the police or anyone else). There are only ways to handle harassment should it occur.

 

[TedMann]

Legal to Record in Public Places

It is legal to video record and take pictures of absolutely anyone, whether they consent to it or not, as long as they are in public places, where there is no expectation of privacy. This also includes recording on duty police, and public and government buildings. If a police officer orders anyone to put away his recorder or camera, he is giving an unlawful order, and you are under no obligation to comply. Moreover, a police officer cannot confiscate a recorder or camera without a court issued warrant. What I have just stated is true in all fifty states. However, it is illegal to record private conversations.

Be thankful for your First Amendment rights!

 

[TedMann]

quincy, see my second to last post.

 

[CdwJava]

It is legal to video record and take pictures of absolutely anyone, whether they consent to it or not, as long as they are in public places, where there is no expectation of privacy.

As mentioned, this is not entirely true. There ARE exceptions ... as previously discussed ... nearly 6 months ago.

This also includes recording on duty police, and public and government buildings. If a police officer orders anyone to put away his recorder or camera, he is giving an unlawful order, and you are under no obligation to comply. Moreover, a police officer cannot confiscate a recorder or camera without a court issued warrant. What I have just stated is true in all fifty states. However, it is illegal to record private conversations.

Mostly true. Though, there are exceptions for some public buildings depending on the totality of circumstances. Although, under the right circumstances, a WARRANT would not be necessary to seize a recording device if there is both probable cause to seize it AND an articulable exigency to support the need for immediate seizure. Simply for openly recording the police in a public place, you'd be correct, they could not seize the recording device.

 

[quincy]

It is legal to video record and take pictures of absolutely anyone, whether they consent to it or not, as long as they are in public places, where there is no expectation of privacy. This also includes recording on duty police, and public and government buildings. If a police officer orders anyone to put away his recorder or camera, he is giving an unlawful order, and you are under no obligation to comply. Moreover, a police officer cannot confiscate a recorder or camera without a court issued warrant. What I have just stated is true in all fifty states. However, it is illegal to record private conversations.

What you are writing is, once again, incorrect.

Just because someone is in a public place does NOT mean that the person has no expectation of privacy or that it is legal to record them in this public place. For one example out of many, consider the laws against "up-skirting." There can be an expectation of privacy even in a public place.

And it is not illegal to record all private conversations. In many states, you can record private conversations if you are a party to the conversation and in other states, you can record private conversations if all parties to the conversation consent to the recording. So, again, what you wrote is incorrect.

The bottom line is that people do not give up all of their privacy rights when they appear in public. A videographer needs to consider many things when recording, including the place, the time and the subject, and a videographer then needs to consider what can and cannot be done with the video recording once recorded. An ignorance of the laws that govern video recording can get the videographer arrested and/or sued.

The problem with what you are posting, TedMann, is that you are making "absolute" statements and, in law, absolute statements are problematic. There are almost always exceptions.

Now ... have you been arrested, TedMann, and trying to work on a defense to the charges? Have you been sued? Have you gotten into trouble for video taping police officers? Or are you just trying to learn the law?

Following is a case you might be interested in reading about video recording the police (it is, as a note, a bit of an anomaly):

The Opinion in Richard Fields v. City of Philadelphia, US District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, February 19, 2016: https://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/16D0151P.pdf

The ACLU's response: https://www.aclupa.org/our-work/legal/legaldocket/fields-v-city-philadelphia/