Is there a way to tell an employee they smell and need to work on their hygiene?

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? CA

I have an employee that now has very strong body odor. I just can't stand to be around her anymore so it is making work difficult. I know I have a right to fire employees without cause here, but it would really be a shame since she is otherwise a good employee and has worked here for a long time. Is there anyway I can tell her to work on that without it getting in legal trouble for harassment or something?

You said that she has worked there a long time. Has the body odor been a problem the entire time she has worked there, or is it something new? If it is something new, then it could be an indication of depression or of a medical problem, and that might change the way that you should approach it with her.

Edit to add: I should have read the whole threat before responding!

 

[cbg]

One thing I should have clarified. What is your work relationship? Are you her supervisor? Or are you on the same level?

 

[AlmostThere]

Fairly recent in comparison to her whole time employed here. I'd say I first noticed the issue around Christmas, but it would just be in a blue moon for like a day or so. This past week it was constant and stronger and I just can't handle it anymore.

Is it possible that your employee has run into hard times and is unhoused, or can't afford to fix a plumbing issue, etc?

 

[cbg]

I just noticed that in the initial post the OP stated that he has firing authority. Okay, that tells me everything I need to know.

OP, although we have been throwing around potential reasons for this problem, you need to leave them out of the discussion. You want to address the problem ONLY. "Sally, we need to discuss something unpleasant. Over the last few weeks you have had a very serious problem with body odor and it needs to be fixed." Then, if SHE says, "Oh, that's due to..." fine, you can go into possible solutions with her. But YOU want to remain simply on, This is the problem; you have to fix it. Do not go into possible reasons for it unless she brings them up. Take a time for the discussion when you are both able to be quiet and relaxed. Don't go into it when either one of you is busy or likely to be interrupted. Keep it calm, keep it polite, keep it focused. Don't make any threats, just tell her; this is the problem, fix it now. If SHE then asks for help, provide suggestions or solutions. Did she recently change soaps or laundry detergents? Is there (as someone above suggested) a problem with her plumbing? Has she seen her doctor? But you don't raise any of those issues unless she does.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[commentator]

I once had to deal with this issue with an employee who happened to be a very prickly minority. His problem was not body odor, it was too darn much cologne. He was a heavy smoker, and would bathe himself down with cologne after an (unauthorized) smoke break. We dealt with it for a long time. He implied, when I tried to discuss this with him, that I was saying all people of his race stink. It was a circular argument. Finally we sort of resolved it as he got over feeling mistreated and wanting to hit at us for the aggrivation privilege.

I do want to say though, that if this is a recent thing, like since Christmas, it might be that your employee has changed cosmetic and hygiene routines. Lots of stuff is coming up lately about how there is no need to shower daily (wildly disagree here!) and that your skin does so much better if you do not. And that crazy stuff they have just started selling and advertising heavily lately that's supposed to be deodorant for your whole body, including those parts they hint about and don't quite mention. ...Well, that stuff is deodorant, NOT an antiperspirant. And I had to learn myself during adolescence, and have had to pass on and give many lectures to smelly teenagers, deodorant doesn't always work. Antiperspirants are often what is required, some people, depending on body chemistry and what they eat, etc. have a stronger body odor than others, and a sweet little deodorant does NOT do the trick for some of us.

Natural is not always nicer. I had some idiot try to tell me when I had breast cancer that it could be from the antiperspirants I had used all my life, "They cause cancer, you know!" But I wouldn't be shy about saying something. It might "hurt her feelings" but I'm sure you're not the only one who has noticed.

 

[Mark_A]

Fairly recent in comparison to her whole time employed here. I'd say I first noticed the issue around Christmas, but it would just be in a blue moon for like a day or so. This past week it was constant and stronger and I just can't handle it anymore.

I don't think this a legal problem, unless she has an employment contract or is in a union. So you just need to tell her. Maybe make a joke about it, or ask her if her hot water is not working and if that is causing her to not bathe anymore.

Unless there is a legal issue, asking a bunch of members of legal forum about this is probably not the best place to get advice.

 

[Mark_A]

I do want to say though, that if this is a recent thing, like since Christmas, it might be that your employee has changed cosmetic and hygiene routines. Lots of stuff is coming up lately about how there is no need to shower daily (wildly disagree here!) and that your skin does so much better if you do not. And that crazy stuff they have just started selling and advertising heavily lately that's supposed to be deoderant for your whole body, including those parts they hint about and don't quite mention. ...Well, that stuff is deoderant, NOT an antiperspirant. And I had to learn myself during adolescense, and have had to pass on and give many lectures to smelly teenagers, deoderant doesn't always work. Antiperspirants are often what is required, some people, depending on body chemistry and what they eat, etc. have a stronger body odor than others, and a sweet little deoderant does NOT do the trick for some of us.

When I was in college years ago (about 1970), there was a visiting professor from the UK at my school. Back then people in UK usually only bathed once a week a most, and sometimes not that often. The cost of hot water was very high, and not all that hot to begin with in most homes. Queen Victoria was famous for boasting "I bathe once a month, whether I need to or not."

But anyway, the professor from the UK used some kind of cologne to help mask his extreme body odor, and the combination of the body odor and cologne was disgusting for at least 15 feet within his presence. The smell infused all his clothes, so even if he bathed he would have had to get all his clothes cleaned (back then professors wore suits or sport jackets that had to be professionally cleaned). That's why I asked the OP if the employee has a hot water problem at her home, or feels like she can't afford to have hot water for bathing or washing her clothes. I never buy anything that needs to be dry-cleaned because it is too expensive to send to the cleaners as much as needed, but that was a problem back when I had to wear suits years ago.

I once worked for someone who bathed on a regular basis, but didn't wash their clothes often enough, and that was the problem. Amazingly this was a second-line manager at a very large corporation. Someone must have told him about his smell, because one day the problem was permanently solved.

 

[AlmostThere]

I don't think this a legal problem, unless she has an employment contract or is in a union. So you just need to tell her. Maybe make a joke about it, or ask her if her hot water is not working and if that is causing her to not bathe anymore.

Unless there is a legal issue, asking a bunch of members of legal forum about this is probably not the best place to get advice.

I disagree with you. If OP approaches this the wrong way, it will be a legal issue.

 

[mart33n]

One thing I should have clarified. What is your work relationship? Are you her supervisor? Or are you on the same level?

I am her boss and one of the owners.

 

[mart33n]

Is it possible that your employee has run into hard times and is unhoused, or can't afford to fix a plumbing issue, etc?

I guess anything is possible. I have no idea though.

 

[cbg]

I am her boss and one of the owners.

I saw that later. See my reply #19. Feel free to ask questions. While Mark A is technically correct that is is not a legal issue, it has the potential to become one, and it is an employment issue.

 

[Mark_A]

I saw that later. See my reply #19. Feel free to ask questions. While Mark A is technically correct that is is not a legal issue, it has the potential to become one, and it is an employment issue.

My statement that it is not a legal issue is based on that one "can" legally fire someone for not exercising proper hygiene, unless there is a an employment or union contract of some kind. However, the manager does need to explain the problem to the employee and give them time to improve, and then I do not believe there would a legal problem for firing them if they did not improve their hygiene (or fix any other problem). My opinion is based on having been a manager in several large corporations where they have very strict rules for firing an employee.

As far a getting advice on how to talk to the employee in a sensitive way, there are probably better people to ask than a bunch of lawyers or would-be lawyers, who probably are not experts in that subject.

I guess that lawyers think everything is "potentially" a legal issue and that we should pay them $400 per hour for advice on everything.

 

[stealth2]

As far a getting advice on how to talk to the employee in a sensitive way, there are probably better people to ask than a bunch of lawyers or would-be lawyers, who probably are not experts in that subject.

I would posit that someone who has worked in HR for many years (such as cbg), is actually one of the top people to ask.

In terms of the italicized, I'm guessing you, @Mark_A , have not read the "Important Notice" at the bottom of every page.

 

[Mark_A]

I would posit that someone who has worked in HR for many years (such as cbg), is actually one of the top people to ask.

In terms of the italicized, I'm guessing you, @Mark_A , have not read the "Important Notice" at the bottom of every page.

I didn't say that cbg isn't a good person to ask. I said that unless there is an employment contract of some kind, it is not likely to be a legal issue, especially for a small family business. I completely agree with cbg's previous suggestion that the owner should sit down with the employee and discuss the problem prior to taking any employment action. Not necessarily for legal reasons, but in fairness to the employee.

I don't know what you mean by italicized? Do you mean what I put in quotes? I am more than willing to accept criticism, but I expect to see some explanation of what you are talking about.

 

[stealth2]

I don't know what you mean by italicized? Do you mean what I put in quotes? I am more than willing to accept criticism, but I expect to see some explanation of what you are talking about.

Do you see a bunch of words in the portion of your post that I quoted which are italicized? I'll make it easier and bold them as well.