Ok first time posting here. Here's my situation. I have phone interview for UI tomorrow, I know that regardless of how that goes I will not know a sure answer right away so I'm looking for opinions on my eligibility. Here's what happened. I worked for a company for almost 2 years. The entire time the owner of the company was not paying time and half after 40 hours, to anyone there. He just refused to follow the law and frequently openly admitted knowing its the law but that he doesn't want to. I was working many 50-55 hour weeks. So I complained once and was soon after given a raise and a promotion... I guess to make up the overtime that was being stolen from me and keep me around as I was a good worker.. I was given a position earning additional income through commission. This was ok for about 6 months. Then the owner decided to put it a whole new computer system and POS system, wireless touchscreen high tech stuff. Well along with this came a lot of bugs in the system. My commission dropped drastically to about 25% of what it usually was. The sales were still the same as the prior 6 months in this position with no issues, but commission for certain services simply wasn't being recorded with the new system. I complained to the manager every pay day for 6 weeks straight when I got my short pay check. Finally came a Saturday morning after pay day where I sat with my manager and told him where I was at with this issue and told him it's bad enough no overtime for almost 2 years, but now I'm losing more money. I got the same run around as the other 6 times complaining. I didn't give up this time and wanted an answer so he called the owner right in front of me and said I was complaining about not being paid properly. The owner said he was coming to talk to me. I waited there and shortly after he pulled in, he parked his truck outside and came in the building. He saw me first before anyone else and immediately pointed his finger at my face and said "who the f___ do you think you are? I do things my way around here and if you don't like it you can get the f___ out!" I responded with one question , "this is how you want to do this?" .... He said "get the f____ out!" , so I got in my car and left and never went back or talked to them. Filed for UI about a month ago and was given phone interview with reason being "may have been fired for misconduct" . Thanks
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Am I elegible for unemployment?
- Thread starter LeffRey12
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FlyingRon
Senior Member
Well you didn't mention your state, but the only real thing you can do is file for unemployment and then dispute the misconduct claim IF it comes up. Griping a lot, while perfectly reasonable grounds to fire someone, isn't the type of misconduct that disqualifies you from unemployment.
commentator
Senior Member
What you have here, in any state, is a dumb butt employer. Which is not terribly uncommon. What you also seem to have is the idea that "may have been fired for misconduct" is a bad thing in regard to unemployment insurance. Believe me, it ISN'T.
If you quit a job, in any state, since we don't know yours, we are speaking very generally here, some states are more or less "claimant friendly" or "employer friendly," but if you voluntarily quit your job, the burden of proof that you had a valid work related reason to quit the job is up to you. You will have to show that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting before you quit, in other words, that you tried very hard to work the situation out and that your employer was not reasonable and was not open to working with you to keep you from quitting the job.
If you are fired from a job, the employer has the burden of proof that they had a valid MISCONDUCT reason to terminate you from your job. In other words, that they had warned you, had given you a chance to change the behavior they didn't like, and that you after being fully aware you were doing something displeasing to them, still elected not to change your behavior and keep your job. It needs to be shown with documented warnings and clear cut information provided to you by the employer regarding what you were doing that might get you fired. Else, it needs to be something that is called "gross misconduct." And that means doing something so bad that any reasonable person would've known that it was wrong for you to do it, even one time, without being warned about it. For example, punching your boss in the face, stealing from them, setting the building on fire, etc.
What your dumb boss did was give in to his sense of power and delight at being able, as the business owner, to say, "F___ you! You're a nobody! I'll do it my way! You hit the road!" While this is not illegal in any state but one, and even in that one is only slightly less legal, it is not a good way to terminate someone's employment if you do not want to have to pay unemployment insurance taxes at a much higher rate than before because this person has been approved to draw benefits.
However, I sincerely hope that you have, in any and all conversations with the unemployment office, stressed that you DID NOT quit your job, that you were told to leave, very forcibly, by your cursing swearing employer. And then you obliged him by leaving. In the meantime, your employer, as soon as he received the notice that you had filed your claim for benefits, has probably figured out that he screwed up. And he will probably change his story to how you voluntarily quit and walked off the job. He will and the other worker who want to stay on his good side will probably all swear that you said, "I quit!"
The thing is, in unemployment insurance, your word and what they say is weighed, and the decision is made based on which of the two parties are most believable of what very well be two liars both telling different stories. They don't care, they'll go with the one who is most believable.
You filed for unemployment benefits, you probably had monetary eligibility for them, and thus a decision is in the process. Hopefully, you are making the weekly or bi-weekly certifications for weeks that pass, even though you are not being paid right now. If you are approved for benefits, you will be back paid to the time you filed a claim( except for the first week, which is a waiting week, if you happen to be in a state with a waiting week) but ONLY if you have made the certifications for each week. Read the instructions carefully on how to do this, and make sure you're doing it.
When you talk to the unemployment office, do not come down over and over about how you weren't getting paid and how you used to be paid and you used to be allowed to make some commission at xxx number of dollars a so much, and yada yada.... The thing is, that's not the issue. The issue is that you were having a disagreement with your employer about how you were being paid, and how much you were being paid. You had discussed it with them, and you were doing that at the time of your termination. What they are really going to come down on is exactly what happened at the time of your termination. What were you told? What did you say or do? Did you say you quit? Did you threaten to quit? Don't even go there. You didn't intend to quit the job, you intended to try to fix the pay problem.
And don't try to even sort of hint you didn't get fired for misconduct. Embrace that! IT IS NOT BETTER TO QUIT THAN BE FIRED! That is a view pushed by employers who don't want to pay high unemployment taxes. Legally the employer can fire you for any reason under the sun. But if they cannot show they had that valid misconduct reason to fire you, then they probably will lose the case and you will be approved to receive benefits from their tax account while looking for another job.
Keep your story consistent, do not try to argue with the employer, no matter what sort of silly thing or wrong things they come up and accuse you off. They may say you were a lousy employee, that you three years ago, got written up for breaking a pipe wrench, or that your performance was poor overall, whatever they can throw in that they can think of that might show they had a valid misconduct reason to fire you. Do not try to rebut their arguments or disprove everything they say. Just tell the truth, "I never thought my job was in jeopardy. I did not quit my job." And your chances of being approved for benefits are fairly good, in my OPINION of course.
If you quit a job, in any state, since we don't know yours, we are speaking very generally here, some states are more or less "claimant friendly" or "employer friendly," but if you voluntarily quit your job, the burden of proof that you had a valid work related reason to quit the job is up to you. You will have to show that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting before you quit, in other words, that you tried very hard to work the situation out and that your employer was not reasonable and was not open to working with you to keep you from quitting the job.
If you are fired from a job, the employer has the burden of proof that they had a valid MISCONDUCT reason to terminate you from your job. In other words, that they had warned you, had given you a chance to change the behavior they didn't like, and that you after being fully aware you were doing something displeasing to them, still elected not to change your behavior and keep your job. It needs to be shown with documented warnings and clear cut information provided to you by the employer regarding what you were doing that might get you fired. Else, it needs to be something that is called "gross misconduct." And that means doing something so bad that any reasonable person would've known that it was wrong for you to do it, even one time, without being warned about it. For example, punching your boss in the face, stealing from them, setting the building on fire, etc.
What your dumb boss did was give in to his sense of power and delight at being able, as the business owner, to say, "F___ you! You're a nobody! I'll do it my way! You hit the road!" While this is not illegal in any state but one, and even in that one is only slightly less legal, it is not a good way to terminate someone's employment if you do not want to have to pay unemployment insurance taxes at a much higher rate than before because this person has been approved to draw benefits.
However, I sincerely hope that you have, in any and all conversations with the unemployment office, stressed that you DID NOT quit your job, that you were told to leave, very forcibly, by your cursing swearing employer. And then you obliged him by leaving. In the meantime, your employer, as soon as he received the notice that you had filed your claim for benefits, has probably figured out that he screwed up. And he will probably change his story to how you voluntarily quit and walked off the job. He will and the other worker who want to stay on his good side will probably all swear that you said, "I quit!"
The thing is, in unemployment insurance, your word and what they say is weighed, and the decision is made based on which of the two parties are most believable of what very well be two liars both telling different stories. They don't care, they'll go with the one who is most believable.
You filed for unemployment benefits, you probably had monetary eligibility for them, and thus a decision is in the process. Hopefully, you are making the weekly or bi-weekly certifications for weeks that pass, even though you are not being paid right now. If you are approved for benefits, you will be back paid to the time you filed a claim( except for the first week, which is a waiting week, if you happen to be in a state with a waiting week) but ONLY if you have made the certifications for each week. Read the instructions carefully on how to do this, and make sure you're doing it.
When you talk to the unemployment office, do not come down over and over about how you weren't getting paid and how you used to be paid and you used to be allowed to make some commission at xxx number of dollars a so much, and yada yada.... The thing is, that's not the issue. The issue is that you were having a disagreement with your employer about how you were being paid, and how much you were being paid. You had discussed it with them, and you were doing that at the time of your termination. What they are really going to come down on is exactly what happened at the time of your termination. What were you told? What did you say or do? Did you say you quit? Did you threaten to quit? Don't even go there. You didn't intend to quit the job, you intended to try to fix the pay problem.
And don't try to even sort of hint you didn't get fired for misconduct. Embrace that! IT IS NOT BETTER TO QUIT THAN BE FIRED! That is a view pushed by employers who don't want to pay high unemployment taxes. Legally the employer can fire you for any reason under the sun. But if they cannot show they had that valid misconduct reason to fire you, then they probably will lose the case and you will be approved to receive benefits from their tax account while looking for another job.
Keep your story consistent, do not try to argue with the employer, no matter what sort of silly thing or wrong things they come up and accuse you off. They may say you were a lousy employee, that you three years ago, got written up for breaking a pipe wrench, or that your performance was poor overall, whatever they can throw in that they can think of that might show they had a valid misconduct reason to fire you. Do not try to rebut their arguments or disprove everything they say. Just tell the truth, "I never thought my job was in jeopardy. I did not quit my job." And your chances of being approved for benefits are fairly good, in my OPINION of course.
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Thank you. I am in NJ by the way. Had interview today he told me make sure I file for the past few weeks, as one of you said, so I can get receive the retroactive pay if eligible. He said I have another phone interview in 5 days and if i am eligible, will be paid a few days after.
Also I know you said the specifics of the financial issue aren't important, but being that it was a commission position based on sales performance, I wanted to be sure to point out that there was no sudden lack in performance, sales or any misconduct as far as my duties and tasks being completed. All the numbers stayed the same except for my pay. I think he just wanted to short me for a few months to make some money back for the new system that he invested all my stolen overtime pay into.
commentator
Senior Member
Yes, you had a valid genuine work/compensation issue that you were trying to resolve in a professional way, by discussing it with a supervisor. But don't throw it in in hopes of making it very plain what a jerk your employer was. It's okay to mention that the company had always had issues paying overtime, that it had been pointed out to the employer, and they had stated that they just didn't care what the law was. You then were paid differently, went on commission, etc. But DO NOT spend too much time talking about this part of the issue.
What they will want to dwell on is that you explain exactly what went down on the day that you were fired, who said what. Stress that you were not in the process of quitting your job when the company owner came up. Stress that you did not ever intend to quit your job. Stress that you always did your job to the best of your abilities and that you had successfully worked at the job for xxx number of years.
In my past, we used to have a big "drama queen" of a well known employer who would come in to work with his panties in a wad, and if an employee dared question him about anything, or say something he didn't like, he would throw them out on the spot! Then he would write the newspapers, call his congressperson, complain loudly and boisterously about how he, one of the nations' prized "small employers" was so grievously cheated by these deadbeats who didn't want to work, trying to draw unemployment, and that terrible agency kept approving them to draw benefits! He never figured it out, no matter how many times we explained the law to him.
And yes, he did underpay people, and he did cheat his employees out of all the overtime and hours he possibly could. He was forever being reported to the Wage and Hour division. But that was not what was the issue the agency was concerned with when he arbitrarily elected to fire someone without prior warnings or a valid misconduct reason.
Good luck to you. Do not be surprised if this is an initial decision, and you are approved to draw benefits, if your employer appeals the decision and asks for a hearing. Either of the two parties has the right to do this second appeal with a hearing. If you are approved initially, you'll start drawing after the initial approval, but you still need to attend the second appeal hearing and tell the same story the same way at this one, just to make sure the claim stays approved. Even if you have gotten another job and are not any longer receiving benefits, be sure you attend and participate in this hearing if it happens, because if you do not, there is a better chance that the initial decision might be reversed and you'd find yourself overpaid by any unemployment benefits you had drawn after being approved.
What they will want to dwell on is that you explain exactly what went down on the day that you were fired, who said what. Stress that you were not in the process of quitting your job when the company owner came up. Stress that you did not ever intend to quit your job. Stress that you always did your job to the best of your abilities and that you had successfully worked at the job for xxx number of years.
In my past, we used to have a big "drama queen" of a well known employer who would come in to work with his panties in a wad, and if an employee dared question him about anything, or say something he didn't like, he would throw them out on the spot! Then he would write the newspapers, call his congressperson, complain loudly and boisterously about how he, one of the nations' prized "small employers" was so grievously cheated by these deadbeats who didn't want to work, trying to draw unemployment, and that terrible agency kept approving them to draw benefits! He never figured it out, no matter how many times we explained the law to him.
And yes, he did underpay people, and he did cheat his employees out of all the overtime and hours he possibly could. He was forever being reported to the Wage and Hour division. But that was not what was the issue the agency was concerned with when he arbitrarily elected to fire someone without prior warnings or a valid misconduct reason.
Good luck to you. Do not be surprised if this is an initial decision, and you are approved to draw benefits, if your employer appeals the decision and asks for a hearing. Either of the two parties has the right to do this second appeal with a hearing. If you are approved initially, you'll start drawing after the initial approval, but you still need to attend the second appeal hearing and tell the same story the same way at this one, just to make sure the claim stays approved. Even if you have gotten another job and are not any longer receiving benefits, be sure you attend and participate in this hearing if it happens, because if you do not, there is a better chance that the initial decision might be reversed and you'd find yourself overpaid by any unemployment benefits you had drawn after being approved.