• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Bankruptcy Fraud?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

WOT 88

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida.

Excuse the long winded intro, but I feel the facts are important.

We are currently operating as a Florida Limited Liability Co, with multiple partners. We are essentially a family business with my father being the majority share holder at 54%. There are three other partners totaling 47% ownership. The additional partners (with the exception of one) contribute nothing. My Grandfather was the original founder of the company in the 50's.


To put it bluntly, my father has an alcohol/substance abuse problem. He is currently the acting President and through a series of bad decisions has put the company in a very bad position financially. We actively have a fair amount of accounts still in somewhat of a good standing, yet they are being damaged daily due to the inability to complete projects in accordance with deadlines. Our cash flow is very sporatic, and leaves hugh gaps in our abilities to pay vendors. My Brother and I have tried every avenue to reverse the damage, but it may be to late. We have tried multiple avenues of approach to raise capital, such as traditional finance, venture capital, ect. Usually they bail, or smell desperation and want to buy the entire company for pennies.

My brother and I have presented my father with one legitimate idea after another, to no avail. In a last ditch effort, as much as it breaks my heart, I urged him to lay off the entire plant and allow us to outsource our manufacturing for a short time, and slowly build ourselves back up again. We can no longer afford the payroll, taxes, liability and workmans comp. All of their checks bounced last week. I don't cry much, but there were literally tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat as I said goodbye as I always do, and watched our workforce leave the plant for the day. This may be their last week.

My father was advised by a bankruptcy attorney to personally file, but advised that doing so would leave his ownership in the company open to siezure. (Not that it is worth anything). Realistically, he and the company need to file bankruptcy. The company just needs to go chapter 7, let them come in and auction all the equipment off and be done with it, it's that bad.

I ask the attorney directly this question, but he dodged the questions and gave me an incomplete answer, mumbling something about fraud.

Here is my idea, my brother and I being officers but non share holders in the current company, essentially defect and start our own corporation with a very similar name. We would contact the current customers with pending projects, advise them the truth, and asked that their purchase orders be re-directed into our new company. Also my brother and I were working on new technolgies we intend to offer, that the old company didn't.

It looks like this; former employees saw the writing on the wall and bailed starting their own company. Previous company continues to dry up and files chapter 7, boom done. Our new start obviously would not have the machinery, but we have a network of people in which to outsource manufacturing until we can grow again. I would have to sell off some of my personal assets to raise operating capital, but I think I can bring a few of the previous employees into the new venture. If my father were to get help (and I think it would take him to lose everything to seek it), I would bring him back in some how to the new venture, and compensate him.

How is that fraud? Do I open my self up sort of litigation. Any realistic advice would be much appreciated.


What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 
Last edited:


asiny

Senior Member
Here is my idea, my brother and I being officers but non share holders in the current company, essentially defect and start our own corporation with a very similar name. We would contact the current customers with pending projects, advise them the truth, and asked that their purchase orders be re-directed into our new company. Also my brother and I were working on new technolgies we intend to offer, that the old company didn't.

How is that fraud?
A shareholder in a company is not responsible if that company goes bankrupt- the officers of the company (i.e. your father as President) are. You fall in the unique position of being officers of the company, you did not say employees. With that if the officers of THEIR failing, and attempting to file bankruptcy, company were to open a similair business then it does seem to fall into the dark-side of gray in fraud.

The company is filing bankruptcy... meaning the officers of the company are filing bankruptcy, meaning your father (as President) is filing bankruptcy, meaning YOU and your brother are filing bankruptcy (not personally, but professionally in the company).
Do I open my self up sort of litigation. Any realistic advice would be much appreciated.
I wonder how [insert expletive here] the companies debtors would be and what they would do when they find out the officers of the company have opened shop doing the exact, same, business as before? I wonder if they would be able to show that the officers of the original company, who filed bankruptcy, were able to raise capital and open business again (under a "similar" name)?

Listen to the company attorney- that is, after all, what you pay them for.
 
Last edited:

WOT 88

Junior Member
A shareholder in a company is not responsible if that company goes bankrupt- the officers of the company (i.e. your father as President) are. You fall in the unique position of being officers of the company, you did not say employees. With that if the officers of THEIR failing, and attempting to file bankruptcy, company were to open a similair business then it does seem to fall into the dark-side of gray in fraud.

The company is filing bankruptcy... meaning the officers of the company are filing bankruptcy, meaning your father (as President) is filing bankruptcy, meaning YOU and your brother are filing bankruptcy (not personally, but professionally in the company).

I wonder how [insert expletive here] the companies debtors would be and what they would do when they find out the officers of the company have opened shop doing the exact, same, business as before? I wonder if they would be able to show that the officers of the original company, who filed bankruptcy, were able to raise capital and open business again (under a "similar" name)?

Listen to the company attorney- that is, after all, what you pay them for.

The Corporation is an LLC , and I am listed as a manager (employee), as opposed to a ''managing member''.

I won't be filing anything (bankruptcy), I walk away, plain and simple.

The serious debts are lines of credit, personally ran up by the President. Sports cars, home improvement, ect ect. You name it, he did it. I am essentially looking to walk away from a seriously disfunctional structure and ownership, an ownership that has used the company like a personal check book. I have done what I could, with the power I had to pay off the majority of vendors.

I was a little upset the night I posted the above, and may have mistated my situation. Being simply a ''manager'' (Unofficially the VP) I am walking away from a sinking ship.

The majority of the customers are loyal to my brother and I, not so much the company. Where we go, so do some of them, period. I have years of blood and sweat into this industry. Myself and many others have tried for a long time to bring about a change that was resisted.

I am not looking to be a snake, or enter a ''dark gray area'' But I have a newborn son, and will be dammed if the ignorance of anyone will interupt or impede my ability to provide for him. Surely you can understand.
 
Last edited:

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
Top