Bought a 1990 Camper, Needs $5,000 in repairs, Never signed title or bill-of-sale.

[Wolfheart7]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington State

I recently purchased a 1990 camper from a private seller advertising his listing via Craigslist. Obviously taking leave of my senses and demonstrating I have no right to make financial decisions for myself, I chose to purchase the vehicle before having it inspected by an experienced mechanic. I explained to the seller that I had one condition regarding the purchase of the vehicle and that was that the vehicles engine function. I was informed that the vehicle was in good repair despite having sat for a year and a half and that the only issue was a battery that needed to be replaced necessitating that the vehicle be jumpstarted. The purchase price of the vehicle was $950.00. The seller signed the title and a bill-of-sale.

Within three-hundred feet of the sellers driveway the vehicle broke down in the middle of the intersection. My wife and I were required to immediately purchase a new-battery at the tune of $140.00 and we were barely able to get the vehicle to the nearest mechanic. We asked the mechanic to do the bare minimum required to make the vehicle run consistently without stalls or engine failures. We were charged $430.00 for repairs relating mainly to the distributor. The mechanic then offered to drop the vehicle off at our house where it promptly broke down in the middle of the driveway.

We were informed by the mechanic that we had been lied to concerning the condition of the vehicle. According to him the vehicle had been sitting for at least five years and would require over $5,000 in massive repairs to completely fix. The vehicle is now broken down in the driveway and requires thousands of dollars in repairs to bring to driving condition. I would like to return the vehicle to the seller due to the misrepresentation of the vehicles condition. I am interested in whether or not any viable legal options are available to me. Currently, I have not signed the title or the bill-of-sale and do not technically own the vehicle. Do I have recourse then to pursue legal action to recover my costs based on the seller's misrepresentation and my decision not to sign a bill-of-sale or the title? Would this exclude the cost of repairs due to the fact that they did not authorize me to repair their vehicle? Any information would be appreciated.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington State

I recently purchased a 1990 camper from a private seller advertising his listing via Craigslist. Obviously taking leave of my senses and demonstrating I have no right to make financial decisions for myself, I chose to purchase the vehicle before having it inspected by an experienced mechanic. I explained to the seller that I had one condition regarding the purchase of the vehicle and that was that the vehicles engine function. I was informed that the vehicle was in good repair despite having sat for a year and a half and that the only issue was a battery that needed to be replaced necessitating that the vehicle be jumpstarted. The purchase price of the vehicle was $950.00. The seller signed the title and a bill-of-sale.

Within three-hundred feet of the sellers driveway the vehicle broke down in the middle of the intersection. My wife and I were required to immediately purchase a new-battery at the tune of $140.00 and we were barely able to get the vehicle to the nearest mechanic. We asked the mechanic to do the bare minimum required to make the vehicle run consistently without stalls or engine failures. We were charged $430.00 for repairs relating mainly to the distributor. The mechanic then offered to drop the vehicle off at our house where it promptly broke down in the middle of the driveway.

We were informed by the mechanic that we had been lied to concerning the condition of the vehicle. According to him the vehicle had been sitting for at least five years and would require over $5,000 in massive repairs to completely fix. The vehicle is now broken down in the driveway and requires thousands of dollars in repairs to bring to driving condition. I would like to return the vehicle to the seller due to the misrepresentation of the vehicles condition. I am interested in whether or not any viable legal options are available to me. Currently, I have not signed the title or the bill-of-sale and do not technically own the vehicle. Do I have recourse then to pursue legal action to recover my costs based on the seller's misrepresentation and my decision not to sign a bill-of-sale or the title? Would this exclude the cost of repairs due to the fact that they did not authorize me to repair their vehicle? Any information would be appreciated.

It's your vehicle. Deal with it.

 

[Wolfheart7]

It's your vehicle. Deal with it.

I don't specifically remember requesting arbitrary opinions, however, it's possible you misunderstood the purpose of my question. If you have any relevant, factual, or remotely intellectual comments feel free to post those also.

 

[sandyclaus]

The relevant, factual truth is that you bought the camper "AS IS". The phrase "buyer beware" says it all.

Many private sellers offer less than perfect used vehicles for sale. All used vehicles are considered "AS IS" sales if the seller doesn't offer you a written warranty or guarantee of fitness. That's why you NEED to have that mechanical inspection done BEFORE you complete the purchase of your used vehicle - EVERY TIME. You have no proof that the seller lied to you or misrepresented the condition of the vehicle if you weren't given anything in writing saying so - it would be your word against theirs. All they have to say is that you never asked, and didn't have the vehicle inspected by your own private mechanic before buying to verify its condition.

Perhaps next time you will take this as a lesson of what NOT to do. Enjoy your new camper - engine problems and all.

 

[Wolfheart7]

The relevant, factual truth is that you bought the camper "AS IS". The phrase "buyer beware" says it all.

Many private sellers offer less than perfect used vehicles for sale. All used vehicles are considered "AS IS" sales if the seller doesn't offer you a written warranty or guarantee of fitness. That's why you NEED to have that mechanical inspection done BEFORE you complete the purchase of your used vehicle - EVERY TIME. You have no proof that the seller lied to you or misrepresented the condition of the vehicle if you weren't given anything in writing saying so - it would be your word against theirs. All they have to say is that you never asked, and didn't have the vehicle inspected by your own private mechanic before buying to verify its condition.

Perhaps next time you will take this as a lesson of what NOT to do. Enjoy your new camper - engine problems and all.

If I haven't signed a bill-of-sale or the title, I do not technically own the vehicle. Therefore, I have currently paid for nothing. It was my hope that this would open a legal avenue for compensation.

 

[sandyclaus]

The seller signed the bill of sale, and signed over the title, which is now in your hands. Your refusal to sign these items now doesn't change the fact that the transaction is complete, and you bought the camper AS IS.

There are no legal avenues to explore here. You failed to get the camper inspected before you bought it, and now you are paying for your mistake. I'm sorry that you don't like that answer, but it is the hard, factual truth and you are stuck with the mistakes you made - and a camper that requires far more repairs than you bargained for. It's an all-too-common mistake that many first-time used vehicle buyers make, and one that rarely gets repeated twice.

 

[Wolfheart7]

The seller signed the bill of sale, and signed over the title, which is now in your hands. Your refusal to sign these items now doesn't change the fact that the transaction is complete, and you bought the camper AS IS.

There are no legal avenues to explore here. You failed to get the camper inspected before you bought it, and now you are paying for your mistake. I'm sorry that you don't like that answer, but it is the hard, factual truth and you are stuck with the mistakes you made - and a camper that requires far more repairs than you bargained for. It's an all-too-common mistake that many first-time used vehicle buyers make, and one that rarely gets repeated twice.

I believe I'll take your advice and cut my losses at $1,600.00 It's a rough lesson, but you are correct, I do not intend to repeat my mistake again. Because I do not legally own the vehicle I may be able to convince the seller to return a portion of the purchase price by informing them that I intend to leave the camper in a location where it will be ticketed and towed resulting in fines, fees, and the loss of their license if they refuse to pay. They may decide that returning the purchase price is a better option than possibly thousands in fees and the loss of their license.

 

[sandyclaus]

I believe I'll take your advice and cut my losses at $1,600.00 It's a rough lesson, but you are correct, I do not intend to repeat my mistake again. Because I do not legally own the vehicle I may be able to convince the seller to return a portion of the purchase price by informing them that I intend to leave the camper in a location where it will be ticketed and towed resulting in fines, fees, and the loss of their license if they refuse to pay. They may decide that returning the purchase price is a better option than possibly thousands in fees and the loss of their license.

I think you'll find that your attempt to coerce the seller into refunding your purchase price will backfire.

Washington State requires that sellers submit a completed Report of Sale within 5 days from the date of sale. The Report of Sale releases their liability from the vehicle or vessel. They only need submit the proper Report of Sale paperwork, either in person at any vehicle licensing office, or online. Once that's done, your little plan to try to force them into rescinding the sale will be over and done.

 

[TheGeekess]

I believe I'll take your advice and cut my losses at $1,600.00 It's a rough lesson, but you are correct, I do not intend to repeat my mistake again. Because I do not legally own the vehicle I may be able to convince the seller to return a portion of the purchase price by informing them that I intend to leave the camper in a location where it will be ticketed and towed resulting in fines, fees, and the loss of their license if they refuse to pay. They may decide that returning the purchase price is a better option than possibly thousands in fees and the loss of their license.

Alrighty then.

Transferring ownership when buying from a private party

If you buy from a private party or receive a vehicle as a gift, you’re responsible for transferring ownership of the vehicle into your name within 15 days.
What you’ll need

When you buy a car, motorcycle, or other vehicle from a private party, make sure you receive all the documents required to transfer the title. These documents may include the following:

Vehicle Certificate of Ownership (title) — The seller must release ownership by signing in the appropriate place on the title. Everyone listed on the title must sign it.
Affidavit of Loss/Release of Interest — If the title is lost, the seller must complete an Affidavit of Loss/Release of Interest and sign it in the presence of a notary public, county auditor, or licensing agent. Everyone listed on the vehicle record must sign it.
Bill of sale — Both you and the seller must provide information about the sale on a Vehicle/Vessel Bill of Sale. This information includes the sale price, which is used to calculate the use tax you must pay.

http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/transferprivate.html

 

[Wolfheart7]

I think you'll find that your attempt to coerce the seller into refunding your purchase price will backfire.

Washington State requires that sellers submit a completed Report of Sale within 5 days from the date of sale. The Report of Sale releases their liability from the vehicle or vessel. They only need submit the proper Report of Sale paperwork, either in person at any vehicle licensing office, or online. Once that's done, your little plan to try to force them into rescinding the sale will be over and done.

I'm quite certain that the proper report of sale paperwork will require personal information regarding the identities of the individual you sold it to, like their name for instance. This is information they do not have. Regardless, I doubt very highly that they have submitted the correct paperwork as they assume the sale to be concluded. The officer who tickets the vehicle will make other assumptions when the license plate is run. =)

 

[TheGeekess]

I'm quite certain that the proper report of sale paperwork will require personal information regarding the identities of the individual you sold it to, like their name for instance. This is information they do not have. Regardless, I doubt very highly that they have submitted the correct paperwork as they assume the sale to be concluded. The officer who tickets the vehicle will make other assumptions when the license plate is run. =)

Report of sale of a vehicle
Join or login to License eXpress. Securely renew and manage your vehicles, motorcycles, trailers, boats, driver license and their addresses all in one place! To learn more, see What is License eXpress.
License eXpress

or
File online. (Vehicles only. For boats, see Report the sale of a boat.)
File in person at a vehicle licensing office (additional service fees may apply).

Make sure you have…

The date of the sale or transfer.
The name and address of the person the vehicle was sold or transferred to.
The vehicle ID number (VIN).
The vehicle license plate number.

When to file

You should file within 5 business days from the date it was:

Sold:
Privately.
On consignment.
Out of state (Use the Washington plate number when reporting to Washington.)
Given away (gifted).
Traded to a private party or dealer.
Donated.
Given to a wrecking yard.
Turned over to an insurance company.
Disposed.

Update your Good To Go! account

If you have a Good To Go! electronic tolling pass, update your account to show you don't own the vehicle anymore. Go through the Department of Transportation:

Online: www.wsdot.wa.gov/goodtogo/, or
Call: 1-866-936-8246

Why you should file

As the seller, you’re responsible for filing the report of sale. If you don’t file, you may be held liable for tolling bills, towing charges, and other civil or criminal liabilities incurred by the new owner.

The new owner is responsible for transferring the title. See transferring ownership into your name.

http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/transfertitle.html

 

[Wolfheart7]

I will of course, not be transferring the title into my name within the fifteen day period leaving it in the possession of the original seller. Unfortunately, the seller will be incapable of providing my personal information on a completed Bill-of-sale as first and foremost, he does not have that information, and second of all I would not sign. Thus far, it seems that there are no legal requirements necessitating that I take responsibility for this vehicle. I have not signed the title, I have not signed a bill-of-sale. I do not own it. The seller does. And all the tickets that go with it.

 

[Wolfheart7]

"As the seller, you’re responsible for filing the report of sale. If you don’t file, you may be held liable for tolling bills, towing charges, and other civil or criminal liabilities incurred by the new owner"

It also specifically requests the name and address of the buyer. Pity. Also, I'm quite certain these individuals have not filed a bill-of-sale. It looks like this camper is still their responsibility. This is where lying gets you.

 

[sandyclaus]

"...you MAY be held liable..."

And then again, since you seem to be intentionally impeding the seller's ability to file the proper report of sale documents, they MAY be able to sue you for the expenses they may incur as a result of it. And all because YOU failed to exercise your own due diligence in getting the vehicle inspected before you bought it.

I suppose you can keep stomping your feet, but you MAY find the experience to be far more costly for you than you think.

 

[Wolfheart7]

"...you MAY be held liable..."

And then again, since you seem to be intentionally impeding the seller's ability to file the proper report of sale documents, they MAY be able to sue you for the expenses they may incur as a result of it. And all because YOU failed to exercise your own due diligence in getting the vehicle inspected before you bought it.

I suppose you can keep stomping your feet, but you MAY find the experience to be far more costly for you than you think.

I am impeding nothing. I am merely not consenting to release personal information of which I have not yet even been asked for and refusing to accept responsibility for a vehicle I do not own. I am neither on the title, nor is there a bill-of-sale. I have signed nothing, I have agreed to nothing. The vehicle is not my liability. In fact, I've done them a favor by replacing their battery and distributor (although I will probably rip them out to re-sell) To educate you on the issue of "suing" an individual, you must know exactly "who" and "where" they are. These minor details do become inherently problematic for an exponential number of would-be civil claims petitioners. Of course, now we're discussing civil litigation, the proper procedures of serving an individual, and debt collection, all with their inherent nuisances, rules, and regulations. All I have to say to them is good-luck.