CA unemployment question (2 claims, first went unfulfilled)

[fozzyb]

Ok, here is my story.

Late April I was fired and I applied for unemployment. There was some mix up about the validity of my identity at first, which got cleared up (my employer has my birthdate wrong, caused a ton of problems with my health insurance with them and they still never fixed it!)

I was told via a letter that my request was granted and I had to certify or something. I received no paperwork for certifying so I did it online. I logged in everyday to see a message saying all necessary paperwork on my end was filed and to wait.

So I waited... for nearly 3 months. And nothing.

So I finally call and can't get a person. Was willing to wait on hold but they didn't even give me an option.

So I file again.

I get my interview before I even get the paperwork informing me that they were going to call me at a specific time (THANKS!!!) and this time with the letter I get the certification form.

The interview goes well and like halfway through I tell him I did all this before and tell him my story to that point and he says something like, "Oh, okay, not sure what happened but you should be good this time around"

So, I'm relieved to be getting something... but it looks like they want to pay me from the time my 2nd claim went in, not the first... that's 3 months of income I'd be out of.

I still have the agents number who I talked to yesterday so I'm going to call him today.


Am I going to be able to revert to the first claim? I know they won't want to do that.

If they try to screw me over do I have any legal recourse?


sorry so long... the TLR version is that I filed and never got any checks so refiled and now it looks like i'll get something, but I need to be compensated from the first date not the 2nd one.



The fact that I got the letter telling me they were going to call me in a certain window AFTER that window has passed really sums up my whole

 

[fozzyb]

was just reading around and I see that UI claims last for a year. So I need to know how to certify for benefits for the previous claim not the one they just sent me paper work for. Make sense?

" How long do UI benefits last?

A claim is effective for one year. During the year, claimants can receive from 12-26 weeks of full benefits. The number of weeks varies, based on total earnings during the base period (an individual's earnings during a 12-month period). During periods of high unemployment, additional benefits may be granted by Congress, or the State Legislature.

 

[commentator]

Okay, what happened is that you received a letter stating that your claim was approved after filing in April. It was for xx number of weeks at $XXX amount of money per week or a total of $xxxx . In order to receive benefits you must certify for each week that passes. That was on there in some form or fashion, too. They wouldn't necessarily send you the certification form. It should be obtainable on line, and must be submitted as directed. After they get it, they issue you a check for the week that has passed.

Your incorrect birthdate shouldn't really have been a big slowdown in the claims process if you had I.D. showing the correct birthdate. The unemployment system does not keep records by your birthdate. As long as your SS# was right, that was the only real issue. But even with the simplest and most easy claim( what we called a "clean claim") it will take about three to four weeks before you would receive the first check, even if you do everything you are supposed to.

You begin the weekly certifications, and usually have a waiting week, for which you certify but are not paid, and then begin receiving checks after your submit the weekly or bi weekly certification forms, which always ask the general questions, like "Did you work this week?" and "Did you receive any changes to any form of pension or retirement?" and "Did you begin or end school or training?" and "Were you able, available and actively seeking work this week?" This is a weekly certification, and it must be done before you can get a check.

Even you admit that in that approval letter you received, you were told that in order to receive benefits you had to file weekly certifications for benefits. (in the literature, or on line, somewhere, they'll tell you very specifically how to certify for each week after it passes, but somehow, YOU MISSED IT.) That's not the fault of the CA unemployment system. You get no benefits unless you have filed for weeks of benefits. Apparently what you did on line didn't work because you did not get a check, even for the first week after you went on line. Apparently what you did was not filing a weekly certification.

Now, three months later, you FINALLY get around to getting back in touch with them. I find it hard to believe that you NEVER were able to reach anybody in the whole three months. You should have called early and late, you should have called every day, and gotten the matter straightened out immediately when no check came.

This was up to you, not up to the unemployment system.For all they know, you stepped in front of a train after your approval. If you don't file each week for benefits for that week, they assume you've returned to work, or something has happened to you which took you out of the labor force. They don't call you up and check on you and why you didn't file for weeks after your claim was approved.

But in any case, you have now spoken with a person, and they have done what they call, "reopened" your original claim. You did not file a claim twice. If you used the same social security number, you re-opened your original April filed claim. It will stay in the system for one year unless actually cancelled. It has not been cancelled. And since you did not certify for the weeks that have passed since April and before now, and you did not get back with them quickly and find out WHY you weren't getting any money, you have no option to be backdated and allowed to go back to the the date you actually filed the claim and were approved and file a weekly certification for each of those weeks that has passed.

Repeat, you only get paid for weeks in which you have certified for the week after it passed. They will start your claim now, and if you are out of work long enough ( no claim lasts longer than 26 weeks in a calendar year from the date of filing)you may still get to draw out the whole amount in the claim. But those first three months are now off the table. They will not backdate them. There was no error on their part. You simply didn't do what it would take to get you a check each week for those weeks.

In the old days when people filed with a living person in an actual unemployment office, we spent quite a bit of time explaining the weekly certification process, and we still would have some people who didn't get it, somehow. Now, with all the instructions on line it's even tricky-er to figure out how to file for, be approved for, certify weekly for and be paid for unemployment benefits. But that's the way it is. You finally have taken the steps necessary to reopen your approved claim. You are now set up and good to begin making the weekly certifications for benefits and being paid weeks of eligible unemployment.

They have absolutely no interest in or desire to keep you from getting any amount of unemployment benefits. It makes absolutely no difference to them whether you get benefits or don't, they all get paid exactly the same, and whether you draw it or not, no one else can draw your particular unemployment claim. Get that idea out of your head. Also, get over that you are somehow "entitled" to those three months. Yes, you would've been able to get them, IF you had understood the proper weekly certification procedure.

That you did not understand, and that you did not try to find out what was going wrong for three months does not mean they cheated you or that they are now obligated to give you, as you say, "three months of income."

 

[fozzyb]

thank you for that thorough response.

"Now, three months later, you FINALLY get around to getting back in touch with them. I find it hard to believe that you NEVER were able to reach anybody in the whole three months. You should have called early and late, you should have called every day, and gotten the matter straightened out immediately when no check came."


You said yourself (and so did everyone I talked to) that it takes a month or so for the first check to come in. Every method I had of checking my status said nothing more needed to be done on my end but check the mail.

Funny that I got the certification form this time around when the first time I did not.

Funny that everytime I logged into the website for certification it said everything was in order.

Funny that I got my interview letter hours after said interview took place this second time.



But whatever... whats done is done.


MOVING FORWARD

My certification document will be mailed today.

I assume I have a month or so before I can expect to see a check?

Should I be calling them everyday to ask if my certification documentation up to date? I certainly don't trust the website. Or should I wait until after a month passes?

 

[fozzyb]

asked on another forum and got this more optimistic and brief response:

"The way it works is CA is that you have to ASK for the back claim forms. They will schedule you for a phone interview to see if you have a good enough reason (them screwing up is a good reason). They will probably deny anyway hoping you will go away. The denial notice will have appeal rights, and then you appeal, and you'll probably be successful when you get it in front of an administrative law judge.

In your case, you have to determine if the 1st claim actually went through. It makes a difference because you might have to ask to have the 2nd claim's start date back dated, or the 2nd claim might have been treated as a "reopening" and then you need the missing claim forms. Hopefully, you can tell from your paperwork what is the most likely senario so that you say things correctly."



As long as they have access to the website log-in and credential records (it seemed to be on anther site) it should be no problem seeing their error and giving me the back forms.

 

[commentator]

asked on another forum and got this more optimistic and brief response:

"The way it works is CA is that you have to ASK for the back claim forms. They will schedule you for a phone interview to see if you have a good enough reason (them screwing up is a good reason). They will probably deny anyway hoping you will go away. The denial notice will have appeal rights, and then you appeal, and you'll probably be successful when you get it in front of an administrative law judge.

In your case, you have to determine if the 1st claim actually went through. It makes a difference because you might have to ask to have the 2nd claim's start date back dated, or the 2nd claim might have been treated as a "reopening" and then you need the missing claim forms. Hopefully, you can tell from your paperwork what is the most likely senario so that you say things correctly."



As long as they have access to the website log-in and credential records (it seemed to be on anther site) it should be no problem seeing their error and giving me the back forms.

The way it works in CA is the way they tell you it works in CA on the website and in the very informative and thorough video and written information on the California unemployment web site. The person who is probably answering you on the other site won a case in CA in front of an administrative law judge of the agency regarding some issue and now thinks it will always work the way it worked for them.

Yes, you can request that you be granted a backdate on all the certification forms from the first claim. You can ask for them to give you the forms. You will no doubt be denied the right to back date till the date of the first claim. The reason is NOT that the system likes to jack with you, or that they'll just do this for meanness, or that they're hoping you'll go away. The reason is that this was not agency error. It was your error. And it is common as can be, happens all the time. They put the information out there all over the place, and people don't read carefully. Then they delay trying to fix the situation. I doubt very seriously if your diligent appealing can change this very ordinary reason for a request for backdates, but you can certainly go for it.

It's pretty obvious the first claim went through if you received a confirmation letter on it. You just need to ask someone to determine whether it did or not, because the people in the agency can LOOK at their information, while you are talking to them, with one look they can see that your original claim went through. Which there's no reason for anyone to think it did not, because you received the appropriate information saying your claim went through, you just didn't get your money because you didn't make the weekly certifications. If you'd read or listened to the website on how to get your money, how to file a claim, they'd have said that you can certify any one of three different ways, either by telephone, internet or by mailing in the claim form they send out. That you didn't receive the claim form in your mailer does not mean the agency made an error. If you'd read the instructions on line you'd have known the paper form was unnecessary.

Yes, it does take almost a month for you to receive your first check. But you are supposed to be making those weekly certifications each week while you are waiting. You file the claim, say on April 6, 2015. You should have submitted your first certification after the week passed, sometime around the 13th, 14th. Then the next week, on the 20th, 21st, sometime in there, you would've filed a cert again, then on the 27th, 28th, you'd have been certifying again. And sometime in there, after the waiting week, the week of the 5th through the 11th was processed as your waiting week, you'd have received a check after the second certification which would've been for the week of the 12th through the 18th.

That you did not get that you were supposed to certify regularly was not agency error. That was your error. That you "got on the website" may or may not show up, but when you got on the website, you apparently did not read what it said. And that you didn't certify, thought everything was okay, and waited three months to call and see what was wrong is not agency error. Hopefully, they'll agree with you, not me, and will send you the backdated certifications, or backdate the reopening of your claim to where you can do all the backdated claim forms on line. But I don't really expect it. You've not lost any money from your claim, you've just extended the timeframe in which you will be drawing it out.

 

[eerelations]

asked on another forum and got this more optimistic and brief response...

Keep in mind OP that commentator is a senior-level UI official with decades of working experience in UI. She has a minimum 10 times more knowledge about UI systems and processes than anyone else on any forum.

 

[commentator]

"Should I be calling them everyday to ask if my certification documentation up to date? I certainly don't trust the website. Or should I wait until after a month passes?"

What I strongly suggest you do is go to the website and read the instructions for making the weekly certifications. Then, as I said above, you certify, on line or by phone, after each week that passes. You don't just file one certification, you do it for each and every week you want to be paid for. If you file a certification and do not get anything, to not hear anything, do not see a check record that shows you have received a waiting week, and then you begin receiving checks after your second certification is made, then certainly, you call them. You keep trying and hold the line as long as it takes. Let them explain, in great detail to you what you are doing wrong, and exactly what it is you need to do to begin receiving benefits

 

[fozzyb]

Returning for the first time since my last post in order to post an update.

Very good timing with your request for an update yesterday Chyvan

So on 7-27 I got my first UI payment after losing my job on 4-24 and filing that day. Yes, the EDD makes mistakes... and yes, they own up to them and make it right.

When I spoke to an agent in July who followed up on my second claim, I told him my story and was kinda like WTF?! He got me the claim forms for July and also back to April. Been sending in everything they've actually started sending... none of the documents having the box checked where I need to fill out my job search info (although I did it anyway the first time)

So the check I got on 7-27 was for a couple hundred (yea, I had a ****ty job).

I just checked the balance on the card before beginning to compose this message and I have 3 deposits that were made today... for a grand total of just under $1000. I think the last claim form I sent in was on Tuesday for the weeks of 5-03 though 5-9 and 5-10 through 5-16. Hopefully the claim forms will keep coming in like that... if not, I registered online with an ID number they gave me (new website format I think since the other once I tried to use screwed over so many people) and the claim forms for back in May are there also... only they want you to fill in the job search history there, so I'll keep sending in the paper forms hopefully.


On ANOTHER note... I just completed my 2nd day of my new job that pays me nearly twice what my last job did and is much more laid back and enjoyable work overall.

Pretty stoked

 

[fozzyb]

You know, in the future, when giving advice, I'd reccomend you actually take the people at their word. This is an annonymous forum, why would anyone lie about their situation. I understand your default is "user error" (I work in IT, trust me I understand), but in this case you were 100% wrong... just like EDD.

So, since the original posting I've done nothing but mail back what they've sent me (yea, they sent me back forms based on the convo I had the day before I posted... imagine that). I suspect my case is rare with them botching sending in the paper work... however I'm willing to bet my experience with the website was not unique as it appears they've changed the online system in the couple months since I originally filed (got an account number for online registration mailed to me, saying they have a new system to try... didn't get that in May)

Wouldn't be surprised to hear on the other forum that you are skeptical of my claims. Why wouldn't you be... you basically told me straight out that I was lying in my original post. Pretty offensive really.

 

[commentator]

If you're talking to me, which I assume you are, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. I am glad you got the problem straightened out. However, I did not accuse you of lying, I simply told you that every person who files for unemployment must make weekly certifications in order to receive any money. I told you that you needed to read the information on the website and that you were responsible for making the weekly certifications, even if you didn't receive a paper form to do so. I said you can't file a new claim while another is in the system.

I maintained, and still do, that you should have called the system and talked to someone much quicker than three months in before you figured out that things weren't working and you weren't getting checks. I am very glad for you that the person you ultimately talked to not only believed you, but was agreeable to backdating your claim weeks to the first week of your claim.

It's a good thing for your situation that there had been a lot of problems with people getting the correct forms and being paid on their claims, because this made them more open to helping you. In most cases, they are not very open at all to backdating for people who have failed to make regular weekly certifications, especially when a long period of time has passed. That they did three months or more of backdates on weekly certs is great. The new system being troublesome and a lot of people complaining has worked to your advantage, and I am glad for you. As I said in previous posts, I sincerely doubted that they would agree to backdate you this far back, and I wasn't saying that just to hurt your feelings, or make you angry, it was just my best prediction. But they did. Great, I'm glad for you.

Since you work in IT, you understand that many times it is user error. And sometimes it is system error. If it doesn't seem to be working for you, you have the responsibility to follow up and figure out why. And ultimately, it doesn't matter whether you understand exactly what happened, or why it happened as long as you got the unemployment back pay for all the weeks you should've been making weekly certifications for since the claim was filed. Congratulations on the new job, as well.