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can hackers frame someone?

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cluelessgal

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana is my state I live in

I was curious to know, mostly because of an irrational fear of being framed... from having ocd and post traumatic stress.....

if hackers were trying to frame someone online or from their phones, even if authorities cannot find evidence of hacking, that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking, so therefore that's probably why people don't get framed online right? Online evidence really isn't evidence because it could be anyone, meaning even if investigators cannot find evidence of hacking , that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking right? so therefore hackers cannot really frame people online or from their phones correct?
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana is my state I live in

I was curious to know, mostly because of an irrational fear of being framed... from having ocd and post traumatic stress.....

if hackers were trying to frame someone online or from their phones, even if authorities cannot find evidence of hacking, that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking, so therefore that's probably why people don't get framed online right? Online evidence really isn't evidence because it could be anyone, meaning even if investigators cannot find evidence of hacking , that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking right? so therefore hackers cannot really frame people online or from their phones correct?

There are ways to track internet activity to its source. Online evidence IS evidence and it can be, and often is, used in court.

If you are careful in what you do online and if you have good internet security, you generally have little to worry about.

People are not often framed for or convicted of crimes they did not commit.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana is my state I live in

I was curious to know, mostly because of an irrational fear of being framed... from having ocd and post traumatic stress.....

if hackers were trying to frame someone online or from their phones, even if authorities cannot find evidence of hacking, that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking, so therefore that's probably why people don't get framed online right? Online evidence really isn't evidence because it could be anyone, meaning even if investigators cannot find evidence of hacking , that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking right? so therefore hackers cannot really frame people online or from their phones correct?

Your assumption that “online evidence” is not admissible evidence is not a good one. It can be admissible evidence like anything else if the person offering it lays the proper foundation for it. It may be possible for a hacker who is really good to make it look like you did something you didn’t do and leave no traces that would expose the hack. In that case it is possible you might end up being judged guilty of that act. It’s really no different than being framed by more traditional means. It comes down to the skill of the person doing the framing as well as the skill of an investigator to detect it.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Your assumption that “online evidence” is not admissible evidence is not a good one. It can be admissible evidence like anything else if the person offering it lays the proper foundation for it. It may be possible for a hacker who is really good to make it look like you did something you didn’t do and leave no traces that would expose the hack. In that case it is possible you might end up being judged guilty of that act. It’s really no different than being framed by more traditional means. It comes down to the skill of the person doing the framing as well as the skill of an investigator to detect it.

I will also add that the odds of you falling afoul of a hacker with that much expertise are incredibly slim.
 

quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana is my state I live in

I was curious to know, mostly because of an irrational fear of being framed.. from having ocd and post traumatic stress.....

if hackers were trying to frame someone online or from their phones, even if authorities cannot find evidence of hacking, that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking, so therefore that's probably why people don't get framed online right? Online evidence really isn't evidence because it could be anyone, meaning even if investigators cannot find evidence of hacking , that doesn't prove there wasn't hacking right? so therefore hackers cannot really frame people online or from their phones correct?

You are aware enough to recognize your fear is an irrational one. That at least is healthy. :)

I recommend you don't worry about what-ifs.

Good luck.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Yes, most people believe that.

:cool:

I am not sure what you meant by that but the OP has a concern that a hacker would deliberate go after her, on a personal basis, and attempt to frame her.

While she could get caught up as one of many hundreds or thousands in a major hack...the odds that any particular, individual enemy of hers would be skilled enough to hack her without being able to be traced at all, is pretty slim. Those who are that skilled have bigger fish to fry.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I am not sure what you meant by that but the OP has a concern that a hacker would deliberate go after her, on a personal basis, and attempt to frame her.

While she could get caught up as one of many hundreds or thousands in a major hack...the odds that any particular, individual enemy of hers would be skilled enough to hack her without being able to be traced at all, is pretty slim. Those who are that skilled have bigger fish to fry.

A few years ago in Minnesota, there was a rather skilled hacker who hacked into his lawyer-neighbor's computer system and, in an act of revenge, wreaked all sorts of havoc. This hacker was arrested and sentenced to 18 years in jail, though, so he wasn't THAT skilled. ;)

Forensic computer investigators were able to install packet sniffers on the lawyer's computer which led the investigators to the lawyer's hacking-neighbor.

Forensic computer specialists have the tools to track and trace computer activity. Hackers might remain anonymous for awhile but they are naive if they think they are invincible.
 
I can speak to this topic. A popular linked subject is Child Pornogory cases. I've been involved in quite a few of them from both a prosecution and defense perspective and the law here in California says that the user needs to knowingly have possession of the content and the way you do that is proving the End user is at the computer logged in watching the footage. This in reality is VERY VERY hard to prove in of itself unless other circumstances exist such as the User had a complex password that only that person would know and timestamps match up or there are multiple copies of the data on the user’s personal thumbdrives scattered around the house. So the prosecution normally tackles this issue indirectly and normally is successful. In an event where there are multiple multiple computers and people living in the same house with multiple OPEN wifi access points it gets a bit more difficult. Normally they get a warrant and arrest the owner of the house / computers after they run their search on the computers then they proceed with the interviews of everyone in the house.

The point above is they don't normally key off of just logs on the local machine. It would be quite a stretch for convincing a jury just based on that. It's normally from the Interviews and search of the house on how you can pinpoint the abuser.

Now to the hacking point, Most people don't know a real hacker, and if they did they wouldn't know it. Allot of people who call themselves a hacker really are mostly script kitty’s and use a device called "Trojan Horses", Sub7, NetDevil, Beast, ProRat are a few that come to mind and are known as "RAT"'s (Remote Administration Tools). To the commoner alot of people think this is a hack but it's just a simple remote control program that normally has "Keyloggers" etc etc. This is great IF YOU USE A DAMN VPN TO MASK YOUR IP. If you are the hacker you must send data to the slave/victim computer. In order to do this you must transmit your return address on the letter you send to the computer so the computer knows how to send the response back. This is bad Joo joo for the hacker because like Quincy said below he used a "Packet Sniffer" (Ex. Wireshark, Ethernal). The person being hacked if they know anything at all can see the return address printed on the packet. A simple warrant to the ISP of the IP address which IS PUBLICLY POSTED can result in the ADDRESS of the hacker. This is Hacking 101.. You never do this. You always purchase a remote VPN from another country that has no regulations of keeping tracking logs in the ordinary course of business. One's in Russia are a great example. They don't have to respond to USA court orders and even if they wanted to they wouldn't have the tracking information by the time the warrant reached them. Even if they did, Tunnel twice. Now before getting too much into it your already getting into LA LA land because this would be a targeted attack. If you talked about not being targeted indirectly I've never once in the 16 years I've worked in this field ever heard of a Virus downloading PTHC (Preteen Hardcore/Illegal) content to a victim’s machine. Why? There is no money in it. You make money by using a CryptoLocker mechanism. Holding the person's data at ransom. So there's really no point to do what you are asking.

So circling back around to you question the evidence they use is the same stuff you use to secure the machine.

1: Was the AP open to the public?
2: Where there other's in the house
3: How many passwords did the user have to go through to get to the point of committing the Crime.
4: Witnesses to testify how much time you spend on the computer
5: Security Software Installed? Firewall?

It's a double edge sword. The prosecution will argue (and they will) That' you AP was secure and only you and a few others knew the password, Your computer user profile was locked and no one else had access to it. Only you had access to this email address that had a confirmation email from some other source, Fred says you spend a lot of time on the computer and that you were not hacked because you used security software/firewall and your machine was secure.

But on the other hand if you do its less likely for that stuff to happen.

If you are truly concerned about not getting hacked I recommend one HUGE THING. Do not run your machine as an Administrator full time. You should always be a limited user, ALWAYS unless installing a piece of software. This is 1000% more effective than anything listed above. Next apply the CIS standard benchmark’s below.
https://www.cisecurity.org/cybersecurity-best-practices/
 

quincy

Senior Member
I can speak to this topic. A popular linked subject is Child Pornogory cases. I've been involved in quite a few of them from both a prosecution and defense perspective

You are not an attorney - so are we to assume you have been both a defendant and a plaintiff in child pornography cases? An explanation might really be helpful here. :)

... and the law here in California says ...

The original poster is in Indiana.

... Now to the hacking point, Most people don't know a real hacker, and if they did they wouldn't know it. Allot of people who call themselves a hacker really are mostly script kittyÂ’s ...

Script kiddies not script kitties. Autocorrect?

... This is Hacking 101.. You never do this.

Right. And a legal forum is not the best place to teach it.

So circling back around to you question the evidence they use is the same stuff you use to secure the machine.

1: Was the AP open to the public?
2: Where there other's in the house
3: How many passwords did the user have to go through to get to the point of committing the Crime.
4: Witnesses to testify how much time you spend on the computer
5: Security Software Installed? Firewall?

...

If you are truly concerned about not getting hacked I recommend one HUGE THING. Do not run your machine as an Administrator full time. You should always be a limited user, ALWAYS unless installing a piece of software. This is 1000% more effective than anything listed above. Next apply the CIS standard benchmarkÂ’s below.
https://www.cisecurity.org/cybersecurity-best-practices/

Some interesting information, AgentSmithers. Some of it, however, was reported to the moderator for review.
 
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You are not an attorney - so are we to assume you have been both a defendant and a plaintiff in child pornography cases? An explanation might help here.



The original poster is in Indiana.



Script kiddies not script kitties. Autocorrect?



Right. And a legal forum is not the best place to teach it.



Some interesting information, AgentSmithers. Some, however, was reported for moderator review.



The post wasnt geared to offend anyone. It was just the plane truth on the Subject. I read his post and was aware he was not in California, But the advice for getting security software is always used counter actively in the real world. Defense attorneys always struggle on showing that the person they nab isn't the right person, Locking down the workstation is a bit counter productive in a sense.
 

quincy

Senior Member
The post wasnt geared to offend anyone. It was just the plane truth on the Subject. I read his post and was aware he was not in California, But the advice for getting security software is always used counter actively in the real world. Defense attorneys always struggle on showing that the person they nab isn't the right person, Locking down the workstation is a bit counter productive in a sense.

Your post did not offend anyone (to my knowledge). Your post had some content that might not have been appropriate for this forum which is why it was sent for moderator review.

Defense attorneys don't "nab" people. Defense attorneys defend the ones who are nabbed. It is up to the prosecution to prove the defendant is guilty of whatever crime they have been charged with committing.

And computer forensics experts are pretty good at uncovering evidence - both to aid the defense and to aid the prosecution. Computer evidence collection can no longer be considered a new skill.
 
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