can they really do this?

[JoeMoma]

What is the name of your state? FL

OK here is whats goin on. my bankruptcy (chap. 7) was discharger over 2 years ago, included in my bankruptcy was a mustang thru ford motor credit. i reaffirmed the payments... 6 months later i still could not afford the car so i gave it back. here is where the problem comes in. oh by the way...my grandfather cosigned... its been a year and a half since i gave the car back and have not herd a word from ford motor credit..neither has my grandfather. until sat. he got a letter saying that he owes 12,000 ..yes 12 THOUSAND...yikes... can they do that? without offering him the car? i owed 17600 on the car when i gave it back. i have a letter here from ford motor credit that i got rite after the bankruptcy stating the replacement value of the car is 15,800. so can they legally sell the car for that cheep (like 5000) for a car worth 15,000???? and a year and a half later tell my grandfather to pay for it? please help.. i know that i cannot afford to pay $12,000 and i dont want anything to happen to my grandfather.. he says he doesn't care about his credit he is old enough to where he doesn't need credit but I dont want them to lean his farm or house...any information will help..thank you in advance.

 

[Ladynred]

Yes, the can do that. They sold the car at auction a long time ago, and they CAN sell it for far less than what is owed.

The problem is two-fold: 1) You reaffirmed the loan. Had you NOT reaffirmed it, and let it go back, you would not be liable for any deficiency and 2) Your GF co-signed, so in either situation, your GF is left holding the bag.

Homesteads are 100% exempt in FL, they can't touch your GF's home.

 

[JETX]

"Homesteads are 100% exempt in FL, they can't touch your GF's home."
*** Not exactly correct. They can't force the sale of a homesteaded property, but they can place a judgment lien on it. And the judgment lien would have to be paid prior to sale, refinance or transfer of the property.

In Florida:
"JUDGMENT LIEN The charge upon the property of a debtor resulting from the decree of a court entered in the judgment docket. Once a certified abstract of the court judgment is recorded, it becomes a lien upon all of the judgment debtor's real and personal property within the jurisdiction. The lien may be suspended by posting a bond until the time for final appeal has expired or an appeal has been turned down by the appellate court. This abstract is recorded in a judgment docket kept by the county clerk or other public official which is arranged alphabetically according to the names of judgment debtors. The abstract places a cloud on the title of all real property owned by the judgment debtor for the statutory time of the judgment lien or until the lien is satisfied. When a judgment is a lien on all the property of the judgment debtor, it is called a judgment in personam as contrasted to a judgment in rem, which applies only to a specific property. The statutory time period is set by state law, in most states ten years."

 

[Brim__]

Unfortunately, both you and your grandfather are liable to Ford Motor Credit for the deficiency on the car because you reaffirmed the loan.

 

[JoeMoma]

but werent they supposed to offer my grandfather the car? arent they supposed to sell the car for a resonable price... i mean how can they sell a car worth 15,500 for 5,000?

 

[JoeMoma]

also what should we do next. what can ford motor credit actually do if we do not pay? my grandfather owns a home in maine and farm land. can we just pay them $100 a month if that is all we can afford? is there anything we can do to lower what they say we owe? i know i cant afford $12,000

 

[jross2]

JETX is not entirely correct. Under the provisions of Florida law, title XV ch 222, you may file with the circuit court, an affadavit describing your property as homestead, and claiming it exempt under Fl law. This will allow you to sell or transfer the property without regards to the judgement liens placed on it. Exceptions are mortgage liens, tax liens, and contractor liens.This is NOT the same document used for homestead exemption under property tax laws. It is an entirely different matter. Consult with a local attorney and he/she can provide further details.

 

[Brim__]

Yes, you could try to work out a payment schedule with Ford Credit before they exercise their option of trying to collect the debt through court or even filing a motion to attach your (or your grandfather's) assets or garnish your wages. I suggest you try to work something out with Ford Credit before they file a lawsuit.

 

[JETX]

JETX is not entirely correct. Under the provisions of Florida law, title XV ch 222, you may file with the circuit court, an affadavit describing your property as homestead, and claiming it exempt under Fl law. This will allow you to sell or transfer the property without regards to the judgement liens placed on it. Exceptions are mortgage liens, tax liens, and contractor liens.This is NOT the same document used for homestead exemption under property tax laws. It is an entirely different matter. Consult with a local attorney and he/she can provide further details.

*** My post was not intended to cover EVERY aspect of the possible scenarios of Florida homestead laws and judgment creditors. It was intended just as it was presented..... to show that a Florida homestead is not "100% exempt in FL".

And since jross brought this up, he is not completely correct either. The process of exempting a homestead in FL from lien is not cheap or easy. I can say that I have seized homesteaded property in Florida without ANY problems.

If someone REALLY wants to research the nuances of this application, read the ACTUAL statutes at:
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0222/ch0222.htm

 

[JoeMoma]

WHAT ABOUT THIS I FOUND ----> Once your car has been repossessed, your creditor may decide to keep the car as compensation for your debt or resell it in either a public or private sale. In either case, your creditor must notify you about what will happen to the car. If the creditor decides that it wants to keep the car, you have the right to demand that the car be sold instead. You may choose to exercise this right especially if the car is worth more than the amount owed on the loan. If the car is sold at a public auction, you must be notified of the date in advance. If sold at a private sale, you will be notified of a date after which it will be sold. Any resale must be conducted in a "commercially reasonable manner." For example, a resale price which is below fair market value may be unreasonable. If this occurs, you may have a claim against the creditor for damages, or a defense against a deficiency judgment. Lastly, you may also be entitled to buy back the vehicle by paying the full amount owed, plus any expenses incurred by the creditor. In addition, you may be able to reinstate your loan by paying the amount you are behind on the loan plus your creditor's expenses.


I NOR WAS MY GRANDFATHER EVER NOTIFIED OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE CAR.

 

[JETX]

JoeMama: It is likely that you WERE notified. Read your lender agreement and you will likely see that it includes notice that the recovered property would be sold at auction. So, my question comes to..... what did the lender say when you brought these issues (notification, etc.) up to them in WRITING??

In any case, if you feel you have a claim against the lender, you can take ALL of your documentation and claims to a local attorney who can review them and advise you of your rights and options.

And if appropriate, you can consider taking legal action against them.

 

[Rebecca Pfost]

This is exactly what I'm going through with Ford Motor Credit. I tried working out a payment arrangment with their "lawyers", but was taken to court before making the first payment. I now have a judgment against me, am being depo'd for wage garnishment and all this after the judge order their "lawyers" to try and work something out. I had already paid them a huge chunk of change, but they are greedy *******s. THEY are why I'm having to file for bankruptcy for the second time in my life.

 

[jross2]

JETX,
Can you please explain to me how you were able to sieze homesteaded property in Florida ? That would be next to impossible. Do you mean you satisfied a lien at a sale ? You would never be allowed to sieze homesteaded property for an unsecured debt in florida. As a matter of fact, the exemption can even be extended to the sale money from property if the money is to be used for another homestead purchase.

 

[JETX]

I kind of figured you would ask that.....
Most people (debtors) sell their homesteaded property in order to purchase other property. In those cases, they will usually purchase the new house often days or weeks ahead of closing on the sale of their previous (homesteaded) property. Since a party can't own TWO homesteaded properties at the same time, a creditor simply moves on BOTH of them. The debtor then has to chose which property to protect (and that is usually the new one). That leaves the older property unprotected...... and I can and have seized it. Judgment gets paid before the property can be sold.

Yes, it takes the luck of a judgment debtor buying/selling, timing, and aggressive pursuit. But it does work.

Or lets look at the other side... if the creditor knows of the pending sale, he can be at the title company at the time of closure and serve the title company with a 'turnover order' (or 3rd party garnishment) to seize the funds at the closing.

 

[jross2]

OK, so what you are saying is the debtor has purchased (and by this I mean closed) on another property before he sold his homestead ? If that is the case, then you would be able to satisfy judgement lien on the unprotected property but NOT on homesteaded property.
That is really a foolish move on the debtors part because in florida you can homestead the proceeds of sale in order to buy another property. He would not have to worry about satisfying lien. All he had to do is make purchase offer on new property and wait till after his sale to close. As long as the purchase occurs within 18 months after sale, money is protected.
All you Floridians out there, learn something here and you will never have to meet Mr. JETX.