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Complicated Real Estate issue

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Buzz123

Member
Florida/California

My dead Uncle’s significant other (SO, they were gay) who lives in California has offered to sell me a house in Florida. SO owned the house with my Uncle with some kind of deed allowing the title passing to the survivor in the event of the death of one owner. My Uncle died last spring and his estate is in probate (I am not inheriting anything from my Uncle). SO says he has the right to sell the house because of the deed. I spoke to my Uncle’s executor and he agreed that SO has the right to sell before the will is probated but he said that the SO must first get the deed changed removing my Uncle’s name. The executor is an accountant in California and not a lawyer.

The price SO and I have agreed to is $500,000 which is probably under the appraised value of the property, and SO knows this and we have talked about it. This is a waterfront house damaged in last year’s hurricane which has not yet been repaired. SO has a contractor working on it but things are not going well and it looks like the contractor is not going to do the work. I think the contractor has really taken advantage of SO. About $25,000 worth of work remains to be done to make the house livable again. Before the hurricane in good condition the house would probably have sold for $1,000,000, however since the hurricane the real estate market for houses like this has tanked; there is not a single comparable sale since hurricane. Several houses like this one are for sale for $700,000 to 1,000,000 but no one is buying. SO and I have discussed all of this, and I believe that under the circumstances $500,000 is a reasonable price but who knows the real market value right now. SO would like the money and to be out of the headache of owning this house before the next hurricane season (June 1). Honestly I wouldn’t pay any more for it right now no matter who owned it.

To make things more complicated SO shows signs of Alzheimer's or something happening to his mind. He is still coherent most of the time but clearly not the man he once was and it’s getting worse. He is about 70 years old. He has no children, no siblings and no living family he knows of. I do believe he wants to do this understands the situation and I think it may be the best thing for him. He has a lawyer; his lawyer was also my Uncle’s lawyer and is helping with the estate. To make this happen it is clear that I will have to take the initiative; SO says he will sign the papers if I bring them to him.

I know that the first answer to most questions like this on this forum are get a lawyer, and I will but am not sure if I need a lawyer here in Florida (I live in Florida) or a lawyer in California or both. I have also thought about hiring a real estate agent to help make things work, but am not sure it would be worth the 6% fee. So my questions are:

What counsel do I need and where?

Does the claim that SO can sell this property before my Uncle’s estate settles ring true? I know that without seeing the deed no one can be sure, but is this even possible?

Any other advice is welcome, I want this to happen but I see lots of pitfalls along the way.
 


JETX

Senior Member
Buzz123 said:
What counsel do I need and where?
You should at least TALK with a good probate attorney in California (though what you are hearing is reasonable. Deed with JROS needs to be amended to remove decendant and refiled in individual owners name).
And you MUST get a good real estate attorney in Florida.

Does the claim that SO can sell this property before my Uncle’s estate settles ring true? I know that without seeing the deed no one can be sure, but is this even possible?
See above.

Any other advice is welcome, I want this to happen but I see lots of pitfalls along the way.
Even more reason to get a local attorney.
 

pojo2

Senior Member
The first thing you better make sure of is that indeed this SO is capable of understanding what he is doing.

You could be oh so surprised when an oh so distant, but only, relative comes out of the woodwork and claims SO was not capable of undestanding what he was doing and that you took advantage of him.

So get the Atty go over all the relevant information and let he/she determine your direction on this.
 

JETX

Senior Member
pojo2 said:
The first thing you better make sure of is that indeed this SO is capable of understanding what he is doing.

You could be oh so surprised when an oh so distant, but only, relative comes out of the woodwork and claims SO was not capable of undestanding what he was doing and that you took advantage of him.
If the property was in fact JTWROS as the SO and poster claim, your concern is not an issue.
 

pojo2

Senior Member
JETX said:
If the property was in fact JTWROS as the SO and poster claim, your concern is not an issue.

Excuse me? If this man is not of sound mind as the OP sort of indicates then yes it is very much an issue.

If the SO is perfectly capable of making such a decision (in a red hot housing area) then of course the SO can do what ever he likes with the property.
 

JETX

Senior Member
pojo2 said:
Excuse me? If this man is not of sound mind as the OP sort of indicates then yes it is very much an issue.
HUH??
Where the hell are you getting that from??
There is NOTHING in this thread to even suggest that to be the case.

The ONLY relevant statement from the OP is:
"I spoke to my Uncle’s executor and he agreed that SO has the right to sell before the will is probated but he said that the SO must first get the deed changed removing my Uncle’s name."

The SO, as the surviving owner, can sell the property if he wants to.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Buzz123 said:
Florida/California

My dead Uncle’s significant other (SO, they were gay) who lives in California has offered to sell me a house in Florida. SO owned the house with my Uncle with some kind of deed allowing the title passing to the survivor in the event of the death of one owner. My Uncle died last spring and his estate is in probate (I am not inheriting anything from my Uncle). SO says he has the right to sell the house because of the deed. I spoke to my Uncle’s executor and he agreed that SO has the right to sell before the will is probated but he said that the SO must first get the deed changed removing my Uncle’s name. The executor is an accountant in California and not a lawyer.

The price SO and I have agreed to is $500,000 which is probably under the appraised value of the property, and SO knows this and we have talked about it. This is a waterfront house damaged in last year’s hurricane which has not yet been repaired. SO has a contractor working on it but things are not going well and it looks like the contractor is not going to do the work. I think the contractor has really taken advantage of SO. About $25,000 worth of work remains to be done to make the house livable again. Before the hurricane in good condition the house would probably have sold for $1,000,000, however since the hurricane the real estate market for houses like this has tanked; there is not a single comparable sale since hurricane. Several houses like this one are for sale for $700,000 to 1,000,000 but no one is buying. SO and I have discussed all of this, and I believe that under the circumstances $500,000 is a reasonable price but who knows the real market value right now. SO would like the money and to be out of the headache of owning this house before the next hurricane season (June 1). Honestly I wouldn’t pay any more for it right now no matter who owned it.

To make things more complicated SO shows signs of Alzheimer's or something happening to his mind. He is still coherent most of the time but clearly not the man he once was and it’s getting worse. He is about 70 years old. He has no children, no siblings and no living family he knows of. I do believe he wants to do this understands the situation and I think it may be the best thing for him. He has a lawyer; his lawyer was also my Uncle’s lawyer and is helping with the estate. To make this happen it is clear that I will have to take the initiative; SO says he will sign the papers if I bring them to him.

I know that the first answer to most questions like this on this forum are get a lawyer, and I will but am not sure if I need a lawyer here in Florida (I live in Florida) or a lawyer in California or both. I have also thought about hiring a real estate agent to help make things work, but am not sure it would be worth the 6% fee. So my questions are:

What counsel do I need and where?

Does the claim that SO can sell this property before my Uncle’s estate settles ring true? I know that without seeing the deed no one can be sure, but is this even possible?

Any other advice is welcome, I want this to happen but I see lots of pitfalls along the way.

To make things more complicated SO shows signs of Alzheimer's or something happening to his mind.

Someone may need to set up a guardianship/conservatorship for SO. SO may not have the legal competency to be able to sell the place.
 

JETX

Senior Member
A lot of maybe's and 'coulda, shoulda' when there is NOTHING to PROVE that is an issue in this case.
Hell, we even have the threat of 'an oh so distant, but only, relative comes out of the woodwork'... when there is nothing to indicate that to be the case.

We need to change this forum from 'legal advice' to 'watch out because there might be a remote chance that this thing you didn't ask about, and that we have NO suggestion to be the case, might happen'. :D
 

Buzz123

Member
Assuming a Joint Tenancy With Rights Of Survivorship deed would it need to be changed before SO could sell, or would SO simply need proof of death for my title company?

Senior Judge I have given some thought to the competency issue and I have been insisting that SO use his lawyer for this, he has had the same attorney for 10+ years, and has been working with him on the estate so I assume his lawyer should know something of the SO’s competency. However the lawyer was also my Uncle’s attorney prior to his death, would this be a conflict of interest, working both for the estate and the SO in this sale?
 

pojo2

Senior Member
JETX said:
HUH??
Where the hell are you getting that from??
There is NOTHING in this thread to even suggest that to be the case.

The ONLY relevant statement from the OP is:
"I spoke to my Uncle’s executor and he agreed that SO has the right to sell before the will is probated but he said that the SO must first get the deed changed removing my Uncle’s name."

The SO, as the surviving owner, can sell the property if he wants to.

Well what would you call this part of the post???

To make things more complicated SO shows signs of Alzheimer's or something happening to his mind. He is still coherent most of the time but clearly not the man he once was and it’s getting worse.

It is a very relevant fact to point out to the OP that what is being done could very well be questioned by a distant relative coming forward at a later date. You know potential heirs that get this "do come out of the woodwork" when they smell money.
 

pojo2

Senior Member
JETX said:
A lot of maybe's and 'coulda, shoulda' when there is NOTHING to PROVE that is an issue in this case.
Hell, we even have the threat of 'an oh so distant, but only, relative comes out of the woodwork'... when there is nothing to indicate that to be the case.

We need to change this forum from 'legal advice' to 'watch out because there might be a remote chance that this thing you didn't ask about, and that we have NO suggestion to be the case, might happen'. :D

Get a grip your over inflated ego is showing!
 

JETX

Senior Member
Buzz123 said:
Assuming a Joint Tenancy With Rights Of Survivorship deed would it need to be changed before SO could sell, or would SO simply need proof of death for my title company?
Most jurisdictions provide a process where the surviving tenant simply present a death certificate and affidavit, pay the fee, and the county changes the title ownership.
I suggest you contact a FLORIDA based probate attorney and ask.

would this be a conflict of interest, working both for the estate and the SO in this sale?
No.
 

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