condo water damage

[geryon]

What is the name of your state? CA

We own a condo that our daughter is living in with some other tenants. They were attempting to replace the kitchen faucet and the shutoff valve under the sink failed. They shutoff the water supply outside immediately and a professional plumber was summoned to fix the valve. This was on a holiday weekend and we had to pay the plumber exorbitant rates. The plumber stated that they were basically screwed before they started and that he would have done exactly as they did and had the same water spraying result.

The issue is the downstairs neighbor who had some water run into his kitchen through the light fixtures in his ceiling. Normally, I would be sympathetic to him and prepared to make amends, but for 2 things.

One, we had a similar situation in our home where we had gallons of water coming out of the light fixtures in the ceiling due to the tarp over our roof failing during a remodeling project. Basically the ceiling dried out and needed no repairs. This building is some 30 years old and I'm not sure that his supposed ceiling damage is actually a result of this incident.

Two, the guy is a lawyer and the first contact he made to us was on legal letterhead, emphasizing the fact that he is a lawyer. I just don't like bullies.

He stated in a letter that his insurance would cover only the first $1,000.00 of damage and he sent us a bill for the construction that amounted to $1186.00. We don't know if his claim was paid or denied, but he is now demanding via letter from someone in his law office that we send him $1186.00. Or, he will sue us in Superior Court will seek additional money, compensatory damage, attorney fees, cost of the suit, etc. Since you can't be represented by a lawyer in Small Claims Court, does this imply that he is intending to sue in Civil Court? Can you sue in Civil Court for damages of $1186.00? This seems like more bullying to me.

Does the fact that the valve failed while our tenants were making repairs, though they didn't actually break the valve, make us liable? And, if so, are we responsible for paying him $1186.00 even if his insurance has already paid him $1000.00.

Thanks for any information or advice.
Geryon

 

[moburkes]

Your daughter and her friends are liable for the damage they caused. They can turn the matter over to their renter's insurance company for investigation.

 

[geryon]

Thanks for the response.

They don't have renter's insurance. The only insurance on our side is what the condo association provides...which has a $10,000 deductible.

But what about my other question. If the other party has received $1,000.00 from their insurance and the damages were $1186.00, are my daughter and her friends responsible for $1186.00 or $186.00?

Please advise.

Thanks,
geryon

 

[moburkes]

They are only responsible for the difference. However, the insurance company will likely sue hem for the other $1000.

Its really, really stupid not to have renters insurance. Its about $25/month. Its also really, really stupid not to have condo owners insurance. It can be around $35/mont, if that. However, since you are renting out the place, you need landlord insurance. It is much more expensive, but, again, stupid not to have it.

Not trying to be rude, but there is no good reason that you can come up with, NOT to have coverage for yourself as the owners and your daughter and her friends to have their own.

 

[geryon]

Generally, our philosophy is to insure for disaster situations, and we pay for that through the association...albeit the high deductible of $10,000. Even in this particular case, and even if $25/month would cover everything, they have been there for 4 years so the combined premiums would actually be more than the cost of this incident, which is the only problem they have had. Still, point taken. The expense could have been more...and there could have been other incidents.

Another question. So does the neighbor only have a case against my daughter and her friends, or also against us?

Thanks so much for you advice.
geryon

 

[moburkes]

I *think* just you, but I'm in insurance, not a lawyer.

However, what is there was a fire (let's say it was the fault of one of the tenants) that damaged some of the belongings of the tenants, it damaged the walls of your unit, and, there was some damage to the electrical system, etc. They had to be out of the unit for 2 weeks while repairs were being done.

The condo association's insurance does not cover this. They had no negligence, so, regardless of the deductible, their insurance would never pay. The tenants need a place to stay for 2 weeks. Their clothing, some furniture, knick knacks, etc. were damaged. The total cost for that is $8000. The repairs to the unit walls and the repairs to the electrical is a few thousand, say $4000. Do the tenants have the money to pay for all of this?

 

[geryon]

Thanks for the insurance advice. We are expecting to put the place on the market in a couple of months, so I'm not sure it's worth getting this coverage now, but definitely something for my daughter to do in the future if she rents someplace herself. Actually, years ago when I lived in an apartment by myself I did have renter's insurance...but I wasn't paying the around $7k/year in house, auto, and health insurance that I am now.

On the subject of his claim with his insurance company, and since you are in insurance, I have another question. I am wondering why the neighbor hasn't mentioned anything the claim he filed with his insurance company...or if he just hopes we forgot he said he was insured. We have the insurance company name as well as the claim number from the neighbor. If we call the insurance company, should we expect them to disclose to us whether they paid the claim?

Thanks again,
geryon

 

[moburkes]

He probably hasn't mentioned it, because he is anticipating putting money in his pocket. No, they shouldn't disclose information, since you are a 3rd party, UNLESS the neighbor has already given permission for them to disclose.

 

[geryon]

Hmmm...

So what do I do? Should I write the neighbor that I will only pay the expenses minus $1000 unless he provides proof or signs a statement that he has not received and is not expecting to receive payment from his insurance company. I am concerned that if I pay the $1000 his insurance is supposed to cover, that his insurance company is going to come after me for that sum as well (as you mentioned they would).

Is there a normal way this is handled?

Thanks for your help.
geryon

 

[LindaP777]

Has he repaired the damage? Did you see the damage? Does he have two estimates? I would like to see this $1000 damage before I paid for repairs.

BTW - get the insurance.

 

[geryon]

I have never been in his place. He sent me photos of water dripping through the ceiling light fixtures in his kitchen along with one estimate for replacing dry wall and insulation. There were no photos of what it looked like before...or after the water dried. Three months later he sent a copy of the bill from the same company after the work was completed.

Still, how do I ensure that if I pay the guy for all of the work, that if his insurance company paid also paid him $1000, that the insurance company won't come after me for the $1000?

Thanks for your advice,
geryon

 

[moburkes]

I don't know that you can. You can, however, wait until he sues you. It will only cost you the court costs, plus the judgment. It might be worth it to wait.

 

[geryon]

How worried should I be about him suing me?

As I said before, he is a lawyer. He has had someone else in his firm send us a letter saying that he will sue in Superior Court and will seek "the maximum available recovery under any and all claims that could be brought against you, including, possibly, compensatory damages and attorneys fees...also entitled to recover from you the costs of this litigation."

In this jurisdiction, both civil court and small claims court are part of the Superior Court. I don't see how he could get much more than his actual damages in small claims court. Is there some way that he could escalate this to civil court just to cause us grief or is this just bravado?

Thanks for you advice,
geryon

 

[LindaP777]

I think a lot will depend on your reaction to the first notice of damage. Did you request to see the damage? Did you ask for a couple of estimates? Once the drywall dried, was it ruined? (I've seen wet drywall dry with no damage at all.) Was it stained after it dried? (if it was just stained, you can simply paint it.) What insulation and why would it need to be replaced?

Personally, I think the guy is blowing smoke, or getting you to finance new, expensive insulation from noise. But if you disregarded all communication until now, if you just blew if off - what do you expect the guy to do?

 

[geryon]

We didn't just blow him off. We received a letter from him in January to which we responded within a week asking for more information as to why we should be responsible for his repairs. We didn't hear from him again until last Friday, June 1. Maybe the paralegal in his office needed something to do.

So, my question is, if the amount of actual damages are well within the range that a non-lawyer would file in small claims court, can this guy elevate his claim based on his so-called legal expenses to file in civil court?

Thanks again,
geryon

p.s. We live 200 miles from this place, so it is not easy for us to actually see his unit. He sent no photos of damage after the water dried, only photos of water dripping from his light fixtures...in which no actual damage was evident. The construction bill includes replacing insulation damaged by water. I don't know how insulation can be damaged by water.