court appointed thief

[bobcat14]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Florida

My 87 yr.old Grandmother was snatched from her home, taken out of the county she resides in, held Incapacitated, froze all bank accounts and has cashed all of her cd's. The court appointed guardian intentionally kept us in the dark about her where abouts until after she secured the guardianship, and didn't notify any family for the court hearings. Since all of this, I started looking into this so called guardian, just to learn that she falsifed the court documents on her application for guardianship. Being isolated, my Grandmother's health as deterioated to the point of being sent to hospice facililty to die alone. That's not all, back in 2003, my Grandmother gave me poa and made me the trustee of her estate. So, my question is; How can some body come in and do this, and with me having the poa and trustee. They have already went through about $47,000 dollars, 1 Grandmother, and now she moves on to her next victim, who just happens to be my Uncle.

My question is, how is it legal for someone to lie to the courts to get guardianship, took out of the county, didn't notifiy me of any the court hearings, cashed in 3 cd's, and finally trying to sell her house. Can I at least stop the sell of her personal property and getting guardianship over my Uncle.

 

[BlondiePB]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Florida

My 87 yr.old Grandmother was snatched from her home, taken out of the county she resides in, held Incapacitated, froze all bank accounts and has cashed all of her cd's. The court appointed guardian intentionally kept us in the dark about her where abouts until after she secured the guardianship, and didn't notify any family for the court hearings. Since all of this, I started looking into this so called guardian, just to learn that she falsifed the court documents on her application for guardianship. Being isolated, my Grandmother's health as deterioated to the point of being sent to hospice facililty to die alone. That's not all, back in 2003, my Grandmother gave me poa and made me the trustee of her estate. So, my question is; How can some body come in and do this, and with me having the poa and trustee. They have already went through about $47,000 dollars, 1 Grandmother, and now she moves on to her next victim, who just happens to be my Uncle.

My question is, how is it legal for someone to lie to the courts to get guardianship, took out of the county, didn't notifiy me of any the court hearings, cashed in 3 cd's, and finally trying to sell her house. Can I at least stop the sell of her personal property and getting guardianship over my Uncle.

What has YOUR attorney said about all this?

FYI - Guardianship invalidates your POA. Your grandmother's money was put in guardianship account only assessible via a court order. The first thing a guardian must do is secure the assests of a ward. This means closing all the bank accounts, cashing in CD's etc. and placing the monies in the guardian account. The court verifies that the money has been placed in the guardian account. The guardian must account for every penny of the ward's assests via the accounting reports that are audited by the court. The guardian can sell a ward''s property and must obtain court permission to do so.

 

[Dandy Don]

Guardian also probably got grandma to sign a POA giving guardian power to claim assets. You also need to be discussing with the attorney whether your state has laws against abuse of POA--if it can be proven that she used the POA to cash in the CD's and claim other assets, she faces legal charges and will have to pay the money back.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA (tiekh@yahoo.com)

 

[BlondiePB]

Guardian also probably got grandma to sign a POA giving guardian power to claim assets. You also need to be discussing with the attorney whether your state has laws against abuse of POA--if it can be proven that she used the POA to cash in the CD's and claim other assets, she faces legal charges and will have to pay the money back.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA (tiekh@yahoo.com)

Dandy Don, the guardian does not require a POA. That court order gives the guardian the legal authorization to claim and secure all assests of the ward which is exactly what is required by law to do.

The guardian has the legal authorization to cash in the CD's which are then placed in the guardianship account. There is no ifs and buts about it. The funds being placed in the guardian account is all verified by the court.

 

[bobcat14]

court appointed theif

What has YOUR attorney said about all this?

FYI - Guardianship invalidates your POA. Your grandmother's money was put in guardianship account only assessible via a court order. The first thing a guardian must do is secure the assests of a ward. This means closing all the bank accounts, cashing in CD's etc. and placing the monies in the guardian account. The court verifies that the money has been placed in the guardian account. The guardian must account for every penny of the ward's assests via the accounting reports that are audited by the court. The guardian can sell a ward''s property and must obtain court permission to do so.

To begin with my grandmother did not need a guardian! But shouldn't I have been notified about all court hearings (appointing the guardian, transfer of proceeding to another county, incapacity hearing as required by state law) The guardian got involved in Nov. of '04, and wouldn't tell me where she was until Jan. 10, of '05, which was the court hearing for her to get guardianship, which again I was notified of. Now she is going after guardianship of my Uncle, is this conflict of interest.

I am always open for discussion, if any one can help or any advice on what I should do. Thanks

 

[BlondiePB]

To begin with my grandmother did not need a guardian! But shouldn't I have been notified about all court hearings (appointing the guardian, transfer of proceeding to another county, incapacity hearing as required by state law) The guardian got involved in Nov. of '04, and wouldn't tell me where she was until Jan. 10, of '05, which was the court hearing for her to get guardianship, which again I was notified of. Now she is going after guardianship of my Uncle, is this conflict of interest.

I am always open for discussion, if any one can help or any advice on what I should do. Thanks

It would be totally irresponsible and inappropriate for anyone to answer your questions without reviewing the court file. That is why you need to HIRE YOUR OWN ATTORNEY.

Your grandmother can be placed in a nursing home that is not in the county of her residence without notifying you. It is not a conflict of interest for a guardian to have wards that are related.

The average cost of just room and board for a nursing home in FL is about $5,300.00 per month.

FYI - $5,300.00 x 8 months = $42,400.00. Then add the cost of prescriptions, insurance co-pays, ancillaries, and other expenses. The total of $47,000.00 is not out-of-line.

 

[bobcat14]

The guardian change counties to get guardianship, and yes, I have a attorney, the guardian had her own attorney, and the court appointed my grandmother a attorney. Ok our last court date, the guardian or her attorney DID NOT show up, but the court appointed attorney for my grandmother did show and says he is there to fill in for the guardian's attorney. (Can he do this?) Well my grandmother just died this Wed. June 22, 05. That day before on the 21st my attorney put in for the guardian to be removed and me placed as her guardian, it is to late for that now, but can I keep fighting on her behalf since she is gone.

 

[BlondiePB]

The guardian change counties to get guardianship, and yes, I have a attorney, the guardian had her own attorney, and the court appointed my grandmother a attorney. Ok our last court date, the guardian or her attorney DID NOT show up, but the court appointed attorney for my grandmother did show and says he is there to fill in for the guardian's attorney. (Can he do this?) Well my grandmother just died this Wed. June 22, 05. That day before on the 21st my attorney put in for the guardian to be removed and me placed as her guardian, it is to late for that now, but can I keep fighting on her behalf since she is gone.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your grandmother and know that you and your family are extremely busy now with her final arrangements. Fighting this now will only cost a lot in legal fees. Furthermore, the guardian has the right to have his/her legal fees paid for with your grandmother's money. Therefore, it would just be best to let this go, have your attorney insist that the guardian do a final accounting now, turn the estate over to the Personal Representative (executor) of your grandmother's estate, be discharged, and have the Personal Representative take care of the final expenses.

Whoever is the Personal Representative of your grandmother's estate needs to take an original death certificate, when it is ready, and bring it to the courthouse and open probate. No one can touch your grandmother's estate until the guardian is discharged. The guardian will not be discharged if you pursue litigation against the guardian.

 

[bobcat14]

court appointed theif

So what you are saying is that, even though there was court appointed guardian for my Grandmother, to see over her property, her money, her in general, that she can not sell her house?? I was the trustee over her estate (well, I was) and she pretty much left everything to me, the guardian has to turn it back over to me? There was a hearing to sell her property, but we managed to put a stop that. (2)since there was a court appointed attorney for my grandmother, does she have to pay for it or does the state somehow, I understand about the guardian expensses, but we have to pay for her attorney to?

Ready for another twist,,before my grandmother was sent to hospice, she was in the hospital and they inserted a feeding tube, but now it has been removed. Hospice says that the guardian made the decision not to reinsert it! She is going by 1990 will that my grandmother has a DNRO. Does that order have to say no food, no water. Well anyway this guardian went and got a court date on june 8,05, and got the power to sign the DNRO, and she this with out notifing me or my attorney. Thanks for all the help, I am getting more information off of this site, than I am getting from my attorney. Again thanks for all the help.

 

[BlondiePB]

So what you are saying is that, even though there was court appointed guardian for my Grandmother, to see over her property, her money, her in general, that she can not sell her house?? I was the trustee over her estate (well, I was) and she pretty much left everything to me, the guardian has to turn it back over to me? There was a hearing to sell her property, but we managed to put a stop that. (2)since there was a court appointed attorney for my grandmother, does she have to pay for it or does the state somehow, I understand about the guardian expensses, but we have to pay for her attorney to?

Ready for another twist,,before my grandmother was sent to hospice, she was in the hospital and they inserted a feeding tube, but now it has been removed. Hospice says that the guardian made the decision not to reinsert it! She is going by 1990 will that my grandmother has a DNRO. Does that order have to say no food, no water. Well anyway this guardian went and got a court date on june 8,05, and got the power to sign the DNRO, and she this with out notifing me or my attorney. Thanks for all the help, I am getting more information off of this site, than I am getting from my attorney. Again thanks for all the help.

I don't mind explaining some things to you as long as it does not cross the line of things that must be reviewed by your attorney and what is in the guardianship case file. To, hopefully, wrap this up for you and point you in the right direction, please answer the following questions:

1. How exactly is the deed to your grandmother's house titled?

2. Who is in possession of your grandmother's will?

3. Who is the Personal Representative (executor) of your grandmother's will?

4. What areas of law does your attorney practice?

After answering these questions, I will also address your above concerns.

 

[bobcat14]

court appointed theif

To answer your questions, My grandmother owned 2 houses (side by side) with 2 different address, but on one deed. she lived in one and my uncle lived in the other. Somehow he got her to sign a quit claim deed to him for both houses. BUT, she just thought that she was just signing one (the one he lived in) NOT her's. So, before she even died we have been trying to get aleast her house back. We later found out that my uncle was held incomptent before the signing of the houses. To make a long story short, when this so called guardian got involved and seen that the houses were in my unle's name that is when she after guardainship over him. All this as been brought to her attention, but the guardian and her lawyer says they don't see no need in trying to put it back in memaws name. There has not been a hearing to sell the property that belongs to my unlcle, but since memaw died there is a for sale sign in the yard.

But having her as my uncle's guardian, is that conflict of interest? All of this is in polk county, the property is in hillsborough county. By the hillsborough courts documents they have somehow put this guardianship case in with a domestic violations case. After the case was close, the guardian's lawyer reopened the case 1 yr. later with a guardianship case.

As for the rest of the questions 2 & 3, it was me and question 4 the lawyer was a family lawyer with elder law and guardianship.

 

[BlondiePB]

the lawyer was a family lawyer with elder law and guardianship.

This lawyer should be able to explain to you what I have been explaining to you since he does guardianships.

To make a long story short, when this so called guardian got involved and seen that the houses were in my unle's name that is when she after guardainship over him. All this as been brought to her attention, but the guardian and her lawyer says they don't see no need in trying to put it back in memaws name. There has not been a hearing to sell the property that belongs to my unlcle, but since memaw died there is a for sale sign in the yard.

The guardian only has to petition the court for a court order for permission to sell the property. You do not need to be notified. The house is not titled in your grandmother's name anymore. Therefore, the house right now belongs to your uncle. You kept referring to youself as Trustee. A trustee is in control over a trust. That's why I wanted to know how exactly the house was titled. I was wondering if your grandmother's house was in trust. Property in trust have different regulations.

But having her as my uncle's guardian, is that conflict of interest?

As previously stated, it is NOT a conflict of interest for a guardian to have wards that are related.

By the hillsborough courts documents they have somehow put this guardianship case in with a domestic
violations case.

Very peculiar.

So what you are saying is that, even though there was court appointed guardian for my Grandmother, to see over her property, her money, her in general, that she can not sell her house??

The deed to her house is not in her name.

I was the trustee over her estate (well, I was) and she pretty much left everything to me, the guardian has to turn it back over to me?

You are the Personal Representative (executor) to your grandmother estate, not Trustee.

since there was a court appointed attorney for my grandmother, does she have to pay for it or does the state somehow, I understand about the guardian expensses, but we have to pay for her attorney to?

The court appointed attorney will be paid for with your grandmother's money. Only when a ward does NOT have money will the court appointed attorney be paid by state funds allocated to do so. The guardian will also be paid with your grandmother's money. The guardian's attorney will be paid with your grandmother's money. That is why I told you to drop the litigation that deals with your grandmother. What's left of her money could easily go to attorney fees and guardian fees - as well as what you will spend of your own money for your lawyer with further litigation in your grandmother's case.

You, as the Personal Representative, will NOT have access to the money in granny's guardian accounts that will be placed in an estate account until AFTER the guardian has done a final accounting, have that final accounting APPROVED by the court, and the guardian is DISCHARGED by the court. The court auditors are much slower approving accounting reports in the summer - perhaps due to vacations. You can open a probate case for granny, but not touch her money until the guardian is discharged.

Ready for another twist,,before my grandmother was sent to hospice, she was in the hospital and they inserted a feeding tube, but now it has been removed. Hospice says that the guardian made the decision not to reinsert it! She is going by 1990 will that my grandmother has a DNRO. Does that order have to say no food, no water.

Some of this would be totally inappropriated and irresponsible to comment on without a review of the document. I will only comment on what is appropriate. The Advanced Health Care Directives/Living Will that your grandmother signed in 1990 was valid.

Well anyway this guardian went and got a court date on june 8,05, and got the power to sign the DNRO, and she this with out notifing me or my attorney.

The guardian did not have to notify you or your attorney to obtain a court order allowing her to sign the DNR. Furthermore, it is a policy of most Hospices that a DNR be signed. The guardian did not even have to obtain a court order for this when this is the policy. Either the primary care physician or the Hospice physician is allowed to sign the DNR order when that is the policy of the Hospice. I do not know of any Hospice organizations in FL that do not have this policy. Therefore, this is NOT an issue to pursue.

Thanks for all the help, I am getting more information off of this site, than I am getting from my attorney. Again thanks for all the help.

You are very welcome, bobcat. Since you are getting more info from me rather than from your own attorney, why is he still your attorney? I'm strongly recommending that you stop the litigation against the guardian against your grandmother due to how much it will cost and be paid with your grandmother's money, focus acquiring guardianship of your uncle, and open a probate case for granny. The choice is your's.

Good luck and best wishes,

BlondiePB

 

[bobcat14]

Can they arrest me if I don't snitch by 11/03/2005

A friend of mine was walking from a known drug area, when a police officer stop her and said she was tresspassing on private property as she cut across a field. He ask for her ID, she had none she gave her name and DOB, he ask her and her boyfriend if he have any weapons in his packback, he voluntarily opened his pack for the officer. He ask her to open her purse and she voluntarily did, and he saw a mirror and a piece of new tin foil told her to set the purse down and hand cuffed her and told her he beleived that she had drug paraphenlia, he tested the mirror with a swab witch turned blue and said it tested posstive and says that he could take to her jail but if she would work for him by making a control buy that things would go alot easier for her, but if she did not he would have a warrent out for by within one week. He wrote his phone number and slid it in her purse and told her boyfriend that he was letting her go. He tells her that she has until today by noon to call him back with an answer or he is going to proceed with a none bond warrent. does he have the right to do this? And they never did positively ID her, and she never signed nothing and never was finger printed. Can they legally do anything to her??