Creating sports cards, laws regarding likeness

[tpcslj47]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois

If one were to create sports cards out of their home, to sell, how would it be feasible to do without infringing on laws of using a players likeness?

If you make a card that
avoids using actual photos, and uses drawings instead.
does not use team logos or full jerseys
has statistical information listed
has their name

Would this be illegal to produce and sell? If yes, are there any corners that can be cut as far as what is shown on the card, to make it legal without the consent of the players or league?

 

[tranquility]

When one tries to find loopholes, one gets burned. Better to think about what the law should be. That's what lawyers who have read cases about the development of the law do.

SHOULD you be able to do what you want?

I think not. You are infringing on the likeness of another without their permission. Yet, that's just an opinion. Others may disagree.

 

[tpcslj47]

Well it sounds like you are talking opinion here. So if I don't use team names or logos or photos of the player. Yes I think I should be able to do that. If I use their real name, I don't know how I feel about it personally. But really it doesn't matter. I just want to know if legally I can. Thanks for the input though.

 

[tranquility]

No, you can't.

If you want to, get lots of lawyers who want to argue new law.

Input? Don't try to live off the property of others.

 

[tpcslj47]

Again. Thanks for the reply I guess. But you are obviously extremely biased and somewhat rude in your responses. If you could link me to said law that states producing a sports card with only a players name is illegal it would be much appreciated.

And I am not trying to live off of others. I am simply interested in getting a business of producing cards off the ground floor, but it is entirely unrealistic for me to receive permission from each NFL player. If you know of a way to feasibly do this I would also be more than willing.

The point of my question is to try to find out how I can go about starting this business. Not make money off of others hard work as you so ignorantly claim.

 

[FlyingRon]

Celebrities (and sports starts qualify) have rights to their names and likenessess. Even if you omit all the team and league trademarks and use your own copyright renderings, you are still infringing on their rights. It ain't going to work. In the case of most of the major league sports, trading card rights are assigned to the union and the union vigorously defends the income stream that represents.

 

[tranquility]

The point of my question is to try to find out how I can go about starting this business. Not make money off of others hard work as you so ignorantly claim.

*I'm* ignorant? In this "business" you want to start, WHY do you want to use those names?

Are they pretty names? Or, is is because they belong to people who other people pay attention to?

You want to use the names because they're famous. They're famous because of the hard work of others. The names can be used by their owners to get money. People will actually pay money to use a famous name in their product or in the product's advertising.

All that is gone if you get to use them for free. I wonder if any of those who own that property would care if you take it for your own use?

Citation? There is no need as the law is pretty basic. Go to google and enter:

legally use celebrity names

You will find many resources to explain the law to you.

 

[xylene]

Use anagrams!

 

[tpcslj47]

Celebrities (and sports starts qualify) have rights to their names and likenessess. Even if you omit all the team and league trademarks and use your own copyright renderings, you are still infringing on their rights. It ain't going to work. In the case of most of the major league sports, trading card rights are assigned to the union and the union vigorously defends the income stream that represents.

Thank you sir. This was an extremely helpful response. I do have a couple more questions if you don't mind. How do people who sell, say, t shirts on eBay with celebrities or musicians on them do this legally? I have bought such t shirts. Is it just that they are such low volume the celebs don't care or even know IRS happening?

And it also is worth noting I think, that I am not simply wanting to create sports cards. It actually is an entirely new concept that would need to be patented but I don't want to go into detail of course. I would not be asking these questions just to simply start making trading cards and try to go up against topps and upper deck etc. That would never have a chance.

Do you know how I would go about receiving permission to use their names? Is if feasibly possible for me to accomplish this?

Thank you again for your time. It is much appreciated.

 

[tpcslj47]

*I'm* ignorant? In this "business" you want to start, WHY do you want to use those names?
Are they pretty names? Or, is is because they belong to people who other people pay attention to?
You want to use the names because they're famous. They're famous because of the hard work of others. The names can be used by their owners to get money. People will actually pay money to use a famous name in their product or in the product's advertising.
All that is gone if you get to use them for free. I wonder if any of those who own that property would care if you take it for your own use?
Citation? There is no need as the law is pretty basic. Go to google and enter:
legally use celebrity names
You will find many resources to explain the law to you.

lol

here is more text to reach the 10 character minimum

 

[tranquility]

lol? Which part?

Look, if you have to use the names for your product to work, you are going to have to come up with a bunch of money. Bunch-of-money. It is hard to even get in to see the people who license such things for large sports organizations like the NFL, MLB, NHL. You either know a person who knows the guy or you hire a person who knows the guy. Starting a business is a complex event which requires way more than an idea and a thick skin. I'm just going to accept you have an idea, develop the thick skin and all you'll need is way more.

 

[tpcslj47]

lol? Which part?

Look, if you have to use the names for your product to work, you are going to have to come up with a bunch of money. Bunch-of-money. It is hard to even get in to see the people who license such things for large sports organizations like the NFL, MLB, NHL. You either know a person who knows the guy or you hire a person who knows the guy. Starting a business is a complex event which requires way more than an idea and a thick skin. I'm just going to accept you have an idea, develop the thick skin and all you'll need is way more.

I see you are still posting.

I am just not sure why...

 

[tranquility]

It amuses me. As does your attitude.

 

[tpcslj47]

It amuses me. As does your attitude.

I feel the same way.

 

[quincy]

tpcslj, head over to the Copyright section of the forum and read through the postings in the recent thread about using "Anagrams" posted by Taxeon. The topic is similar to the one you have posted here, and there are a few cases cited that you can review, and there is a discussion on the legalities of using the names, likenesses and statistics of sports players.

Tranquility and FlyingRon pretty much summed it all up for you (despite your seeming reluctance to accept what tranquility said, for some odd reason perhaps known only to you).

If you try to capitalize off the names and fame of others, you can find yourself in court. What is involved is copyright law, trademark law, and publicity rights laws. These court battles are expensive to pursue and defend against, regardless of the outcome, especially when you have a large organization like the NFL or MLB involved. They vigorously defend their trademark and publicity rights. They have high-powered attorneys. They have a lot of money. They have a lot of time to spend in court. I am guessing you don't.

Some recent court decisions have leaned toward allowing others to legally use the names and statistics of players for "fantasy" league play. Other decisions have come out in favor of the sports organizations. Others have been settled and the terms of settlement are confidential (google for a Yahoo/NFL suit settled last year).

As for those who sell tee-shirts and other products online that use celebrity names or likenesses or trademarked material on them - they either licensed the use (which is rare) or they will receive a cease and desist letter delivered to them, demanding $$$$$$ for their infringing use, or they will be sued. Some lucky few may escape detection and a letter or a suit only because they are lucky.

It is a crap shoot, tpcslj - and it can be an expensive crap shoot. Licenses are not granted by these sports organizations often, and they are prohibitively expensive for most people to even consider. The best advice is to read the cases cited in the other thread and this will give you a better understanding of what you may face. Then I recommend you seek out the help of an IP attorney in your area, who can review your plans and advise you on the risks you face should you go ahead with your plans. Then go from there, or rethink your plans.

Good luck.