Criminal Code VS. Governing Rules

[footdr]

What is the name of your state?Texas

Sons entered pool area(fenced) No warning signs i.e.NO TRESPASSING, MAY BE PROSECUTED, etc.

This is a common area facility of a non-profit incorporated HOMEOWNERS ASSOC. of which owners have an interest.

Purpose for entry was of a non-criminal nature(reason irrelevant anyway). We have been paying association dues 23 years. Sons NEVER in trouble.

Use of common area facilities are recordered in Deed Restrictions, ByLaws, And Governing Rules. No where does is say that homeowners using the facilities after hours, in violation of posted rules, etc. will face CRIMINAL Charges. The sanctions are fines and/or loss of facility priveldeges. YET,
another teen working as a Lifeguard that had been playing tennis next to my sons prior to them climbing over the fence to retrieve the balls they hit in to the pool facility(fence of tennis courts and pool facility seperated by 4' grass path.)Said nothing to them, but used his cell to phone police and then phoned his boss.

Officers did not want to arrest due to no intent to vandalize or rob, ect.and privalte property.
Pool Manager(contracted by Homeowners Assn) insisted on pressing charges because"he was sick of teens vandalizing the facilities. (THEY DIDNT NOR INTENDED TO). SCAPEGOATS
l. question of whether or not he had the authority to have them arrested, because the HOA is presently deciding whether to drop charges.

2. We have an interest in the common area. Violations of rules and use are recorded in HOA governing documents

3. While the facility is fenced. There is no indication that entering the area, private facility for homeowners only, would result in criminal prosecution.

Since the facility is part of the Association common area, governed by Homeowner approved rules and sanctions would'nt violating one of those rules be subject to the fines, etc. outined in those documents. The Homeowners Association in behalf of the homeowners has the right to levy these fines, there is no mention of criminal prosecution when there is no damage to property or loss of personal property. Actually there is no mention of prosecution anywhere but I would assume if one had vandalised or stole property it would be grounds for prosecution. Or if the individual WAS NOT a Homeowner/resident.

I think it is to bad that people think they have to arrest persons for minor things. The employee calling the police could have simply said something to them. A request to leave, loss of priviledges would have sufficed.

I believe this is false arrest. It was a rule violation not trespass. The person that pressed charges has no written authority to do so on behalf of the owners.

I hired a lawyer to ask for pretrial diversion. But, I would like to get the charges dropped altogether.

Anyone have any brilliant ideas based upon the information I have provided?

Needless to say I am very disappointed in the way this was handled. The officer told me it was pretty rediculous but because the "OWNER" (not), insisted on pressing charges, he had to.

 

[JETX]

Sons entered pool area(fenced) No warning signs i.e.NO TRESPASSING, MAY BE PROSECUTED, etc.

Signage is NOT required. Texas Penal code (§ 30.05-CRIMINAL TRESPASS) defines 'notice' as being a fenced area. The fence itself was notice that they were not permitted to enter.
2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
source: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.007.00.000030.00.htm#30.05.00

Said nothing to them, but used his cell to phone police and then phoned his boss.

He isn't REQUIRED to say anything. The lifeguard did exactly as he was supposed to.... report the CRIME and let the police handle it.

Officers did not want to arrest due to no intent to vandalize or rob, ect.and privalte property.
Pool Manager(contracted by Homeowners Assn) insisted on pressing charges because"he was sick of teens vandalizing the facilities.

As is his right. Hell, how do you know that your son is not one of the ones who have been "vandalizing the facilities"?? Oh that's right, your son is an 'angel' who would NEVER do anything wrong!!

l. question of whether or not he had the authority to have them arrested, because the HOA is presently deciding whether to drop charges.

Of course he, or anyone else, had the right to call the police when they see a CRIME in progress!! The possible subsequent decision by the HOA has nothing to do with it.... nor does it waive or justify your sons actions.

We have an interest in the common area. Violations of rules and use are recorded in HOA governing documents

Okay?? What relevance??

While the facility is fenced. There is no indication that entering the area, private facility for homeowners only, would result in criminal prosecution.

As noted above, the fence itself is sufficient 'notice'.

Since the facility is part of the Association common area, governed by Homeowner approved rules and sanctions would'nt violating one of those rules be subject to the fines, etc. outined in those documents.

Nope. Your son's trespass of a fenced area is a CRIME.

The Homeowners Association in behalf of the homeowners has the right to levy these fines, there is no mention of criminal prosecution when there is no damage to property or loss of personal property. Actually there is no mention of prosecution anywhere but I would assume if one had vandalised or stole property it would be grounds for prosecution. Or if the individual WAS NOT a Homeowner/resident.

None of that is relevant to the FACT that your son jumped a fence, for whatever reason, and was caught.

I think it is to bad that people think they have to arrest persons for minor things. The employee calling the police could have simply said something to them. A request to leave, loss of priviledges would have sufficed.

And I think it is bad that parents refuse to accept the FACT that their son committed a crime and try to give their idiot child an excuse for his conduct. What kind of parent are you???

I believe this is false arrest. It was a rule violation not trespass. The person that pressed charges has no written authority to do so on behalf of the owners.

And you are truly an idiot.... and a piss poor parent for not recognizing your sons conduct for what it is.... a CRIMINAL act.

I hired a lawyer to ask for pretrial diversion. But, I would like to get the charges dropped altogether.

Who cares what you would like. Your son is still a criminal.... and your trying to molly-coddle him should be criminal.

Anyone have any brilliant ideas based upon the information I have provided?

Yeah. Do your job as a parent and help your child recognize that rules (and fences) are there for a reason and that he is accountable for his actions and conduct.

Needless to say I am very disappointed in the way this was handled. The officer told me it was pretty rediculous but because the "OWNER" (not), insisted on pressing charges, he had to.

And I am appalled that you are such a poor parent that you are teaching your son that it is okay to break the law.... as long as it isn't "too serious". You are one of the problems with society... being blind to the facts and condoning criminal conduct.

 

[footdr]

Code V. Governing Rules

How do I know they did vandalize in the past? Becuase I am a good parent you idiot.

This is a privately owned area, the Rules for Use and fines for violations are recorded in the Governing Documents. We own an interest in the facility. Get it!

I know the statutes regarding Criminal Trespass. The question is whether or not the Governing Rules that provide for fines for using the area after hours should have been invoked. They mention nothing of criminal prosecution.

I can only hope that you do not work in any area of the legal profession because you obviously have no clue regarding the rights of individuals.

I was seeking responses from individuals that have a clear understanding of the law. You clearly do not.

Do people a favor and don't answer anymore posts!

 

[JETX]

How do I know they did vandalize in the past? Becuase I am a good parent you idiot.

You're only half right. You are (presumably) a parent. Based on your original thread of trying to ignore his conduct rather than to ACCEPT the facts.... makes the issue of your 'type' of parent questionable.

This is a privately owned area, the Rules for Use and fines for violations are recorded in the Governing Documents. We own an interest in the facility. Get it!

And of course, that means nothing. It is fenced to keep idiots out. Your son 'jumped' it. Pretty clear to anyone who is not purposely 'blind' to the facts.

I know the statutes regarding Criminal Trespass. The question is whether or not the Governing Rules that provide for fines for using the area after hours should have been invoked. They mention nothing of criminal prosecution.

You do now, because I gave them to you. Your insistance that his actions were somehow NOT trespassing because there weren't any signs shows us that you didn't at the time.
So, in addition to being a lousy parent, you're a liar also!! tsk-tsk

I can only hope that you do not work in any area of the legal profession because you obviously have no clue regarding the rights of individuals.

Sorry, but I do.... and DO know the rights of individuals... and recognize a crime when it occurs.

I was seeking responses from individuals that have a clear understanding of the law. You clearly do not.

Anyone with even a modicum of intelligence can clearly see who is the ignorant party in this thread.... and the piss-poor parent.

Do people a favor and don't answer anymore posts!

Poor baby.... and I pity your children for their lack of any responsible parenting. Sounds like you need to get a local attorney on retainer... your kids will need him.

Do the world a favor and STOP having kids. The prisons are already overcrowded enough.

 

[footdr]

Criminal code Vs. Governing rules

The only thing that you are correct about is that any anyone reading this post can clearly see who the ignorant party is. That is clearly you. Your posts told me nothing I already didn't know. My post NEVER said that I condoned their actions.

You never answered the legal question I presented.

Your ramblings are of a vindictave nature. You know nothing about my parenting practices. Perhaps you would like Violations for speeding to receive the Death penalty!

Perhaps you do not read case law. Are you aware of the number of people that are charged with trespass with bodily injury, rape, destruction of property, use of deadly weapon, THAT ARE PLEAD DOWN(charge reduced)to just Criminal Trespass. Same thing my sons were charged with when none of these other violations were committed.

THE LAW IS SUPPOSE TO BE JUST.

Its people like you that would use no discretion when enforcing laws.You would TIE UP THE COURTS AND CRIMINAL FACILITIES with cases that are much better handled outside of the legal system.

I would have to conclude from your comments that you were A LITTLE ANGEL
during your teen years(I would presume by your comments that you still may be a teen). However, by the way you attack persons in some of your posts I bet you weren't a little angel.

Try to stick with the facts presented in the post. Your assumptions of a persons skills as a parent can not possibly be made from what I posted. And assumptions are not a point of law!

P.s. Both of the boys have high grades, participate in community activites and are praised by all of the adults they come in contact with. All of the other Homeowners I have spoke with disagree with the their treatment.
The District Attorney will more than likely drop it. Why? Because he doesn't want to waste the money and time to try a case that did not cause a threat to person or property and that should have been handled outside of the legal system. GET IT

You will receive no further repsonse from me to any future posts you make regarding this. I have wasted enough time responding to a FOOL.

So SAVE IT

 

[JETX]

The only thing that you are correct about is that any anyone reading this post can clearly see who the ignorant party is. That is clearly you.

Ow!! That hurt!!

Your posts told me nothing I already didn't know. My post NEVER said that I condoned their actions.

Your post is clear as to your real 'concerns'.

You never answered the legal question I presented.

Gee, since I answered EVERYTHING you asked.... what do you contend I didn't answer??

Your ramblings are of a vindictave nature. You know nothing about my parenting practices.

As your 'concerns' above, your parenting 'practices' are clear to anyone who reads this thread.

Perhaps you would like Violations for speeding to receive the Death penalty!

You really are warped, aren't you?? Now you seem to comparing trespassing to speeding... to death penalty's. Seriously, you need help.

Perhaps you do not read case law. Are you aware of the number of people that are charged with trespass with bodily injury, rape, destruction of property, use of deadly weapon, THAT ARE PLEAD DOWN(charge reduced)to just Criminal Trespass. Same thing my sons were charged with when none of these other violations were committed.

Mom, get those meds out!! You must have forgotten to take them.
Please provide ONE case law citation where "bodily injury, rape, destruction of property, use of deadly weapon," was PLED (correct terminology) down to criminal trespass. Or is this just more of your rampant imagination.

THE LAW IS SUPPOSE TO BE JUST.

It is. He JUST climbed over the fence... and that was a CRIME. If the law is truly just, he will be found guilty of criminal trespass and sentenced as provided by the Texas Penal Code.

Its people like you that would use no discretion when enforcing laws.You would TIE UP THE COURTS AND CRIMINAL FACILITIES with cases that are much better handled outside of the legal system.

See, there you go again. The fact of law is simple... guilt or not. The 'discretion' comes in the sentencing. And it is idiots like you who simply refuse to accept the clear facts.... who clog up the court system by playing games.

I would have to conclude from your comments that you were A LITTLE ANGEL during your teen years(I would presume by your comments that you still may be a teen). However, by the way you attack persons in some of your posts I bet you weren't a little angel.

Gee, double logic again!!!
Actually, I was a little heller when I was young. And, thank heavens, my parents didn't claim my innocence in the clear view of my actions. They taught me that I was responsible for my own actions and conduct.... just like most good parents do.

Try to stick with the facts presented in the post. Your assumptions of a persons skills as a parent can not possibly be made from what I posted. And assumptions are not a point of law!

Ever heard of 'circumstantial'?? Of course, assumptions are rampant in the legal system.

Both of the boys have high grades, participate in community activites and are praised by all of the adults they come in contact with.

Great. So then why do you insist on teaching them that they are above the law... and that the law doesn't apply to them??

All of the other Homeowners I have spoke with disagree with the their treatment.

So, tell them to show up at the kids hearing and present their feelings to the court.

The District Attorney will more than likely drop it. Why? Because he doesn't want to waste the money and time to try a case that did not cause a threat to person or property and that should have been handled outside of the legal system. GET IT

Yep. I get that the legal ramifications of their conduct is only one aspect of this situation.... and probably the least relevant. The thing that should concern you (as it should any other reader here), is your refusing to teach them to be accountable, responsible adults.

You will receive no further repsonse from me to any future posts you make regarding this. I have wasted enough time responding to a FOOL.

OW!! That hurt too!

 

[AmosMoses]

"How do I know they did vandalize in the past? Becuase I am a good parent you idiot.

This is a privately owned area, the Rules for Use and fines for violations are recorded in the Governing Documents. We own an interest in the facility. Get it!

I know the statutes regarding Criminal Trespass. The question is whether or not the Governing Rules that provide for fines for using the area after hours should have been invoked. They mention nothing of criminal prosecution.

I can only hope that you do not work in any area of the legal profession because you obviously have no clue regarding the rights of individuals.

I was seeking responses from individuals that have a clear understanding of the law. You clearly do not.

Do people a favor and don't answer anymore posts!"

"The only thing that you are correct about is that any anyone reading this post can clearly see who the ignorant party is. That is clearly you. Your posts told me nothing I already didn't know. My post NEVER said that I condoned their actions.

You never answered the legal question I presented.

Your ramblings are of a vindictave nature. You know nothing about my parenting practices. Perhaps you would like Violations for speeding to receive the Death penalty!

Perhaps you do not read case law. Are you aware of the number of people that are charged with trespass with bodily injury, rape, destruction of property, use of deadly weapon, THAT ARE PLEAD DOWN(charge reduced)to just Criminal Trespass. Same thing my sons were charged with when none of these other violations were committed.

THE LAW IS SUPPOSE TO BE JUST.

Its people like you that would use no discretion when enforcing laws.You would TIE UP THE COURTS AND CRIMINAL FACILITIES with cases that are much better handled outside of the legal system.

I would have to conclude from your comments that you were A LITTLE ANGEL
during your teen years(I would presume by your comments that you still may be a teen). However, by the way you attack persons in some of your posts I bet you weren't a little angel.

Try to stick with the facts presented in the post. Your assumptions of a persons skills as a parent can not possibly be made from what I posted. And assumptions are not a point of law!

P.s. Both of the boys have high grades, participate in community activites and are praised by all of the adults they come in contact with. All of the other Homeowners I have spoke with disagree with the their treatment.
The District Attorney will more than likely drop it. Why? Because he doesn't want to waste the money and time to try a case that did not cause a threat to person or property and that should have been handled outside of the legal system. GET IT

You will receive no further repsonse from me to any future posts you make regarding this. I have wasted enough time responding to a FOOL.

So SAVE IT"

footdr,

Now, please take what I am about to say to you in the spirit in which it is intended...straitforward, but without any malice whatsoever, that is:

If you are confident that you know enough about all of this to argue with JETX about it (PER ABOVE QUOTES), and believe me, I have read plenty enough of his posts to know that he knows that of which he speaks, then you pretty much don't need to post any query here at all. In fact, your postscript alone pretty much says it all:

P.s. Both of the boys have high grades, participate in community activites and are praised by all of the adults they come in contact with. All of the other Homeowners I have spoke with disagree with the their treatment.
The District Attorney will more than likely drop it. Why? Because he doesn't want to waste the money and time to try a case that did not cause a threat to person or property and that should have been handled outside of the legal system. GET IT

It seems like you have essentially given yourself the answer that you wanted to hear.