Denial of visitation

[Zephyr]

What is the name of your state? WI

Hello all

Gonna try to make this short- I gave ex a calendar of the next 12 month schedule for visitation and requested that if there was anything he disagreed with to let me know in writing by sept 1, otherwise that is the schedule we would work from.

last night was the end of the summer visitation schedule. at the swap he threw the calendar into my car and said he didn't agree, that this up coming weekend was not mine and therefore the whole calendar would need to be changed. Any time I tried to ask for clarification or explain why this up coming weekend was indeed my weekend he just yelled louder that it wasn't and he didn't have to write anything and blah blah blah...

So here is my understanding- partly based on the advise that I recieved from the start of summer when we had a similar issue.

Last weekend was dad's weekend...the weekend before- mine- all the way back through the summer and last school year....court order states that child should be returned one week prior to the start of school (yesterday)

It is my contention the this upcoming weekend IS my weekend for 2 reasons

1. It is my weekend in the weekend rotation that we have been going off of for over a year
2. We are now on the school year visitation schedule which provides me every other weekend and all other extended weekends from school.....which has always been every three day weekend the occurs during the school year

Ex says no.....who is right?

Also ex absolutely refuses to put anything into writing- I have asked countless times for us to communicate via email or in writing- he never responds or will just say I don't do email....but anytime anything has to be discussed it ends up like last night- he just verbally bullies the situation until I get sick of dealing with him and trying to talk and just drive away.

I think I must have the crystal ball this week- I see court in my future


I have more questions to follow regarding pro se strategies....but we'll start with this

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? WI

Hello all

Gonna try to make this short- I gave ex a calendar of the next 12 month schedule for visitation and requested that if there was anything he disagreed with to let me know in writing by sept 1, otherwise that is the schedule we would work from.

last night was the end of the summer visitation schedule. at the swap he threw the calendar into my car and said he didn't agree, that this up coming weekend was not mine and therefore the whole calendar would need to be changed. Any time I tried to ask for clarification or explain why this up coming weekend was indeed my weekend he just yelled louder that it wasn't and he didn't have to write anything and blah blah blah...

So here is my understanding- partly based on the advise that I recieved from the start of summer when we had a similar issue.

Last weekend was dad's weekend...the weekend before- mine- all the way back through the summer and last school year....court order states that child should be returned one week prior to the start of school (yesterday)

It is my contention the this upcoming weekend IS my weekend for 2 reasons

1. It is my weekend in the weekend rotation that we have been going off of for over a year
2. We are now on the school year visitation schedule which provides me every other weekend and all other extended weekends from school.....which has always been every three day weekend the occurs during the school year

Ex says no.....who is right?

Also ex absolutely refuses to put anything into writing- I have asked countless times for us to communicate via email or in writing- he never responds or will just say I don't do email....but anytime anything has to be discussed it ends up like last night- he just verbally bullies the situation until I get sick of dealing with him and trying to talk and just drive away.

I think I must have the crystal ball this week- I see court in my future


I have more questions to follow regarding pro se strategies....but we'll start with this

My nuttyX was similar...and eventually (in court) it was ordered that we communicate in writing. Have you considered e-mailing him anyway? (At least then in court, you can show your repeated attempts to communicate & his failure to respond).

Another thing I did when it was really at it's worst was to call or leave a msg on his home phone when he was at work (so I couldn't get screamed at) and then let his calls go to voice mail/answering machine so I had his response documented. I refused to discuss ANYTHING in front of our daughter~ If he started yelling I just calmly got in my vehicle and drove away, if we were at my home I calmly walked inside & shut the door. Because he loved control & this took away his control, some of the voice mails were...um, interesting & helped me prove in court that it was nearly impossible to communicate with him.

Sorry you are going through this Zephyr, it really PISSES me off when parents use their children as weapons against each other.

 

[Zephyr]

My nuttyX was similar...and eventually (in court) it was ordered that we communicate in writing. Have you considered e-mailing him anyway? (At least then in court, you can show your repeated attempts to communicate & his failure to respond).

Another thing I did when it was really at it's worst was to call or leave a msg on his home phone when he was at work (so I couldn't get screamed at) and then let his calls go to voice mail/answering machine so I had his response documented. I refused to discuss ANYTHING in front of our daughter~ If he started yelling I just calmly got in my vehicle and drove away, if we were at my home I calmly walked inside & shut the door. Because he loved control & this took away his control, some of the voice mails were...um, interesting & helped me prove in court that it was nearly impossible to communicate with him.

Sorry you are going through this Zephyr, it really PISSES me off when parents use their children as weapons against each other.

He won't even give me an email address otherwise I would....

He never calls either- everything is in person- or nothing....I should have been recording all of our contact from the get go- but I thought he might actually have our child's interests at heart....so I would have my hubby only record (very unobtrusively with his cell phone) record when I gave written communication to ex. So I am kinda stuck....

My plan is for this weekend ( geography- child 3 hours away, swap place 1.5 hours away, swap time 8pm) have my hubby at the swap place at 8 pm- since it's a pretty sure thing ex won't be there anyway, I will have already driven all the way to dad's town, at 8:15 I will request the assistance of the local sheriff at dad's home....I figure either way I get something- either I get our son for my weekend, or I get third party documented refusal.....but I would prefer the first.....

 

[Ohiogal]

Here is a couple of questions:
How is the order worded regarding weekend visitation? What is the holiday schedule (who has the child for Labor Day)?
How is school year worded?

 

[casa]

He won't even give me an email address otherwise I would....

He never calls either- everything is in person- or nothing....I should have been recording all of our contact from the get go- but I thought he might actually have our child's interests at heart....so I would have my hubby only record (very unobtrusively with his cell phone) record when I gave written communication to ex. So I am kinda stuck....

My plan is for this weekend ( geography- child 3 hours away, swap place 1.5 hours away, swap time 8pm) have my hubby at the swap place at 8 pm- since it's a pretty sure thing ex won't be there anyway, I will have already driven all the way to dad's town, at 8:15 I will request the assistance of the local sheriff at dad's home....I figure either way I get something- either I get our son for my weekend, or I get third party documented refusal.....but I would prefer the first.....

Uuugggh !!

Well, you have a good plan. Either pick up the child or get a police report documenting your complaint re; denial. The problem I see, is that if your court order doesn't stipulate what weekends you have~ Then how to prove it's your weekend?

If you go to modify, ask that specific weekends be assigned ie; 1st, 3rd & 5th to you... 2nd & 4th to him, etc. Because when you e/o/w it seems to sometimes get hitched up when school ends/begins.

Hope you spend the wknd with kiddo!

 

[Zephyr]

Uuugggh !!

Well, you have a good plan. Either pick up the child or get a police report documenting your complaint re; denial. The problem I see, is that if your court order doesn't stipulate what weekends you have~ Then how to prove it's your weekend?

If you go to modify, ask that specific weekends be assigned ie; 1st, 3rd & 5th to you... 2nd & 4th to him, etc. Because when you e/o/w it seems to sometimes get hitched up when school ends/begins.

Hope you spend the wknd with kiddo!

Yep- which is what I wanted in the order to begin with so this problem never could have happened.....grrrrrr

I am at work and don't have my order with me to get the word for word- but as soon as I do I'll post it- then after replies for that I will have some strategy questions.....just trying to get everything laid out right with what I want to say before posting gibberish.

 

[casa]

Yep- which is what I wanted in the order to begin with so this problem never could have happened.....grrrrrr

I am at work and don't have my order with me to get the word for word- but as soon as I do I'll post it- then after replies for that I will have some strategy questions.....just trying to get everything laid out right with what I want to say before posting gibberish.

Good Idea~ I think Ohiogal's point was that there MAY be some specifics included where it addresses school year rather than where it addresses weekend visitation...or, at least we can hope!

 

[Ohiogal]

Good Idea~ I think Ohiogal's point was that there MAY be some specifics included where it addresses school year rather than where it addresses weekend visitation...or, at least we can hope!

That was my point. And we should take it that your ex has your child during school week right? Some plans draw a line between school year and summer visitation and set up that the NCP gets the first weekend during the school year and then alternate until summer vacation when that kicks in. There may be a way to pinpoint exactly when it starts and how it is determined what weekends you have.

 

[Zephyr]

That was my point. And we should take it that your ex has your child during school week right? Some plans draw a line between school year and summer visitation and set up that the NCP gets the first weekend during the school year and then alternate until summer vacation when that kicks in. There may be a way to pinpoint exactly when it starts and how it is determined what weekends you have.

Ok, ran home and got my order- here is what it says word for word.....it's a ridiculous order so no laughing please


A. School Year (EX) shall have primary physical placement of (child) during the school year which shall be defined as one week prior to the start of the school year until the Sunday after the last day of school. (ME) will have secondary placement during the school year every other weekend and during those days in which school is not in session except for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.

B. Summer (ME) shall have physical placement of (child) during the summer which shall be defined as commencing the Sunday after the last day of school and ending one week prior to the beginning of the school year. (EX) shall have secondary placement every other weekend during the summer and additional uninterrupted seven day period. (EX) shall notify ( ME) at least 60 days in advance of the 7 day period of extra placement during the summer.

C. Holidays The parties shall share the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays in a manner to be determined by the parties. Regardless of placement (ME) shall have placement during the Mother's Day weekend and (EX) shall have placement during the Father's day weekend.


That's it- finito.....I had posted about my weekend in June that fell directly before the sunday that the summer schedule started....most people seemed to think that because we were still on "school" time and it was my weekend in the rotation then I still got the weekend- I advised ex- he spoke with his attorney and then miraculously agreed and granted the weekend- scenario is the same again only it's at the start of the school year.

 

[Ohiogal]

I would say you would get this weekend and Labor Day as kiddo will not be in school. This is an in-school weekend. tell him you will be picking up junior as this will be your weekend. YOu get every other weekend in school. He can take it or leave it. You also get Labor Day: (ME) will have secondary placement during the school year every other weekend and during those days in which school is not in session except for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.

Tell him if he does not comply that you will be filing contempt for denial of visitation as you will be arriving at the proper pickup spot to get your child according to the court order. If he is not there, he is in contempt. That is based on my reading of what you have. Granted it doesn't say you get the first weekend however since he had the last weekend of the summer as defined by the court order, and you are entitled to Labor Day, it is logical that this would be your weekend. He better have a damn good reason why he would deny it in front of the judge.

 

[Zephyr]

I would say you would get this weekend and Labor Day as kiddo will not be in school. This is an in-school weekend. tell him you will be picking up junior as this will be your weekend. YOu get every other weekend in school. He can take it or leave it. You also get Labor Day: (ME) will have secondary placement during the school year every other weekend and during those days in which school is not in session except for the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.

Tell him if he does not comply that you will be filing contempt for denial of visitation as you will be arriving at the proper pickup spot to get your child according to the court order. If he is not there, he is in contempt. That is based on my reading of what you have. Granted it doesn't say you get the first weekend however since he had the last weekend of the summer as defined by the court order, and you are entitled to Labor Day, it is logical that this would be your weekend. He better have a damn good reason why he would deny it in front of the judge.

That's what I thought too...that's why hubby and I will be doing double duty to cover the pick up- that way no matter what I have proof that I tried to utilize my time

 

[NoDiggety]

That's what I thought too...that's why hubby and I will be doing double duty to cover the pick up- that way no matter what I have proof that I tried to utilize my time

And don't forget to get some sort of proof (receipt) that you were there.

 

[Zephyr]

And don't forget to get some sort of proof (receipt) that you were there.

yep- he's getting gas with the cc and I'll be getting a police report