EC 261 2004 - international litigation, small claims

[vvaldellon]

Hello,

First timer here. I need some advice regarding the situation that 2 of my friends and I are in. Quick breakdown of circumstances as follows:

3 passengers involved. Our flight tickets were cancelled while we were making our way to the gate.
1) Arrived at Brussels Airport over 3.5 hours prior to departure. Upon arrival to the check-in desk we were told that check-ins would not start until 2 hours prior to departure.
2) Returned 2.25 hours prior to departure, with a line backed up and minimal staff. The wait was 45+ minutes but we are issued our boarding passes.
3) Security takes 30 minutes and Customs takes nearly an hour. By the time we clear customs it is already well past departure time.

Our return trip was delayed by one full day, mostly spent at the Brussels Airport. We were forced to book new tickets at cost as well as hotel and food for the night. We are based in the US (California), the airline is Headquartered in Ireland, and the airport was in Belgium.

We have opened a case with them directly and have been going back and forth. Originally they were obstinate in refusing to reimbursing any amount to us but recently I have received an email in which they would be willing to reimburse the price of one ticket "as a gesture of goodwill", minus a "missed departure fee". Needless to say, we are looking to decline that offer and pursue what we believe is the amount necessary to be made whole.


I learned of EU regulation EC 261 2004 recently and wanted to know if it is possible to be compensated appropriately according to it? And how would I go about it, file small claims in another country? Would I be able to have this done online or would we have to show up in person? Or is it possible to file a claim in US small claims under European law? I'm new to this and any advice would be appreciated!

Thank you.

 

[quincy]

Hello,

First timer here. I need some advice regarding the situation that 2 of my friends and I are in. Quick breakdown of circumstances as follows:

3 passengers involved. Our flight tickets were cancelled while we were making our way to the gate.
1) Arrived at Brussels Airport over 3.5 hours prior to departure. Upon arrival to the check-in desk we were told that check-ins would not start until 2 hours prior to departure.
2) Returned 2.25 hours prior to departure, with a line backed up and minimal staff. The wait was 45+ minutes but we are issued our boarding passes.
3) Security takes 30 minutes and Customs takes nearly an hour. By the time we clear customs it is already well past departure time.

Our return trip was delayed by one full day, mostly spent at the Brussels Airport. We were forced to book new tickets at cost as well as hotel and food for the night. We are based in the US (California), the airline is Headquartered in Ireland, and the airport was in Belgium.

We have opened a case with them directly and have been going back and forth. Originally they were obstinate in refusing to reimbursing any amount to us but recently I have received an email in which they would be willing to reimburse the price of one ticket "as a gesture of goodwill", minus a "missed departure fee". Needless to say, we are looking to decline that offer and pursue what we believe is the amount necessary to be made whole.


I learned of EU regulation EC 261 2004 recently and wanted to know if it is possible to be compensated appropriately according to it? And how would I go about it, file small claims in another country? Would I be able to have this done online or would we have to show up in person? Or is it possible to file a claim in US small claims under European law? I'm new to this and any advice would be appreciated!

Thank you.

How much total were your costs and how much total was the reimbursement offered you by the airlines? In other words, what was the fee charged for the missed departure?

It can be important for you to balance costs versus benefits rather than right versus wrong. It can be a fool's errand to chase $10 at a cost to you of $20 - so what you CAN do is not always the smartest thing TO do.


edit to add: I just noticed I didn't really answer your question.

Whether you can claim flight delay/cancellation compensation under (EC) 261/2004 depends on the reason for the delay/cancellation. Here is a link to a "This is Money" article with a good look at the process involved and the article includes a link to (EC) 261/2004: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...laim-EU-flight-delay-compensation-EC-261-2004

 

[vvaldellon]

For some reason my post never came through all day... mods?

Text

Thanks for responding quincy!

Our physical costs:
3 new tickets: 1853 USD
Hotel: 222.77 USD
Food: 75.05 Euro
Per EC 261/2004, it specifies we could potentially claim 600 Euro per person additionally.

I did come across that article (and read the regulation itself) when I first learned of EC 261/2004, I believe we should be able to fall under it. The people at the gate told us our tickets were cancelled, but the flight itself did depart.

There were no extraordinary circumstances the airline can claim 'which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken' because reasonable measures hadn't been taken; they only had 2 staff operating on a peak day, only opening check-ins 2 hours prior to an international flight.

Indeed, we're trying to gauge how worth it it will be to file small claims overseas, because we're concerned we would have to show up in person which would be almost defeating the purpose of receiving the amounts we are requesting.

 

[Zigner]

How does this relate to US law?

 

[quincy]

For some reason my post never came through all day... mods?



Thanks for responding quincy!

Our physical costs:
3 new tickets: 1853 USD
Hotel: 222.77 USD
Food: 75.05 Euro
Per EC 261/2004, it specifies we could potentially claim 600 Euro per person additionally.

I did come across that article (and read the regulation itself) when I first learned of EC 261/2004, I believe we should be able to fall under it. The people at the gate told us our tickets were cancelled, but the flight itself did depart.

There were no extraordinary circumstances the airline can claim 'which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken' because reasonable measures hadn't been taken; they only had 2 staff operating on a peak day, only opening check-ins 2 hours prior to an international flight.

Indeed, we're trying to gauge how worth it it will be to file small claims overseas, because we're concerned we would have to show up in person which would be almost defeating the purpose of receiving the amounts we are requesting.

It appears to me that you would qualify for reimbursement of the expenses you incurred as a result of your cancelled flight. I can't tell you if a small claims action would be worth the cost, though, if you cannot be reimbursed by working through airline channels.

 

[vvaldellon]

It appears to me that you would qualify for reimbursement of the expenses you incurred as a result of your cancelled flight. I can't tell you if a small claims action would be worth the cost, though, if you cannot be reimbursed by working through airline channels.

By working through airline channels, are you referring to the cost of flying back over to Brussels or Dublin to represent ourselves? I wasn't sure if there was a way to be able to do it here but attempt to have the case be defined under EU law.

How does this relate to US law?

Not sure myself, I was looking for advice if it was possible to file for small claims here but use EU law, or if it would be necessary to file in a small claims court overseas and have our papers processed remotely.

 

[quincy]

By working through airline channels, are you referring to the cost of flying back over to Brussels or Dublin to represent ourselves? I wasn't sure if there was a way to be able to do it here but attempt to have the case be defined under EU law.


Not sure myself, I was looking for advice if it was possible to file for small claims here but use EU law, or if it would be necessary to file in a small claims court overseas and have our papers processed remotely.

I suggest you contact the Civil Aviation Authority and see what they can do for you long-distance.

http://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Resolving-travel-problems/

Good luck.

 

[jimor]

refund

They will pursue it for you, I don't think you need to be in the EU or do any legal work. After you fill out info online they will send an email within a day or so telling you if you have a claim they think is valid. Then they send you a power of attorney form to authorize them to pursue your compensation. They keep a percentage, of course, but it is probably worthwhile for the effort and hassle it saves you. They do not charge anything up front, they just take part of a successful claim.

My girlfriend had a cancelled flight and we started a claim using this site. No idea how it will go yet, but seems like the easiest approach.

 

[quincy]

They will pursue it for you, I don't think you need to be in the EU or do any legal work. After you fill out info online they will send an email within a day or so telling you if you have a claim they think is valid. Then they send you a power of attorney form to authorize them to pursue your compensation. They keep a percentage, of course, but it is probably worthwhile for the effort and hassle it saves you. They do not charge anything up front, they just take part of a successful claim.

My girlfriend had a cancelled flight and we started a claim using this site. No idea how it will go yet, but seems like the easiest approach.

If your post is referring to the Civil Aviation Authority, good.

I would be very wary of any other type of website that offers to assist for a fee. Paying an attorney for assistance is far different from paying an online service. I wish your girlfriend success, jimor.

Some online services are scams, taking your money and your personal information to use for their own nefarious purposes. I recommend going through the airlines, the government or a licensed attorney you have hired to represent you.

 

[jimor]

I would be very wary of any website that offers to assist for a fee. Paying an attorney for assistance is far different from paying an online service. I wish your girlfriend success, jimor.

Some online services are scams, taking your money and your personal information to use for their own nefarious purposes. I recommend going through the airlines, the government or a licensed attorney you have hired to represent you.

There is no advance fee, you don't pay them anything. If they succeed with your claim they keep a percentage. They also did not ask for much personal information. Initially just the flight details so they can check to see if the potential for a claim is there. So far they have not asked for anything more.

I am normally inclined to do these things on my own but in this case I think the airline would just give us a run-around knowing we are unlikely to go to a European court. This service can process a large number of claims and has a legal staff so the airlines probably know about them and take them more seriously. I assume the business model is based on volume - there are a lot of potential claims out there.

I see no real risk in going through them in this case, and a lot of advantages over trying to get something ourselves. A licensed attorney is not going to be cost effective when you're looking at 400 or 600 euros return.

I am not sure they deal with anything beyond the EC 261 2004 claim. They may but that has not been clear to me. My girlfriends travel partners did not get on any acceptable alternative flight anywhere so they were refunded the price of the initial flight. But their return had been booked as a separate one-way ticket home from another city and the airline did not even refund that. We have just filled in the basic flight info which is used for the 400 euro (for us) claim.

 

[quincy]

There is no advance fee, you don't pay them anything. If they succeed with your claim they keep a percentage. They also did not ask for much personal information. Initially just the flight details so they can check to see if the potential for a claim is there. So far they have not asked for anything more.

I am normally inclined to do these things on my own but in this case I think the airline would just give us a run-around knowing we are unlikely to go to a European court. This service can process a large number of claims and has a legal staff so the airlines probably know about them and take them more seriously. I assume the business model is based on volume - there are a lot of potential claims out there.

I see no real risk in going through them in this case, and a lot of advantages over trying to get something ourselves. A licensed attorney is not going to be cost effective when you're looking at 400 or 600 euros return.

I am not sure they deal with anything beyond the EC 261 2004 claim. They may but that has not been clear to me. My girlfriends travel partners did not get on any acceptable alternative flight anywhere so they were refunded the price of the initial flight. But their return had been booked as a separate one-way ticket home from another city and the airline did not even refund that. We have just filled in the basic flight info which is used for the 400 euro (for us) claim.

Well, I hope that everything works out for your girlfriend.

Your post actually was edited prior to my reading it, so I was guessing a bit at what you included in your post that violated the terms and conditions of this site. My guess was you included a commercial website. There are a lot of websites that promise services in exchange for upfront fees and/or personal information that is best kept personal. It can be smart to avoid those.

Good luck to vvaldellon, your girlfriend, and others who experience flight delays and cancellations.

 

[Zigner]

Well, I hope that everything works out for your girlfriend.

Your post actually was edited prior to my reading it, so I was guessing a bit at what you included in your post that violated the terms and conditions of this site. My guess was you included a commercial website. There are a lot of websites that promise services in exchange for personal information that is best kept personal.

Good luck to vvaldellon and others who experience flight delays and cancellations.

I suggest that your guess is spot-on

 

[quincy]

I suggest that your guess is spot-on

Thanks. That's good to know.