Engagement ring - refusal to return

[zddoodah]

1. Illinois (or, more precisely, nothing in your post suggests a California court would have personal jurisdiction over her).
2. Personally or by substituted service.

If you can't return it, what would you do with it? Are you planning to give it to another woman? (As a woman I say eww..)

One would assume he wouldn't be dumb enough to tell woman #2 that he had previously given it to woman #1.

 

[Just Blue]

1. Illinois (or, more precisely, nothing in your post suggests a California court would have personal jurisdiction over her).
2. Personally or by substituted service.



One would assume he wouldn't be dumb enough to tell woman #2 that he had previously given it to woman #1.

It would come out, somehow, someway.

 

[quincy]

It would come out, somehow, someway.

I know many women prefer not to be surprised by a ring picked out by their fiancé but rather would like to help with the ring selection.

 

[AlmostThere]

It would come out, somehow, someway.

Especially when it comes to things like getting it sized.
Jeweler: We need proof of purchase to size this ring.

Invoice predates the relationship.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I drew no conclusion other than saying “likely to be a losing battle.” I believe more is apt to be lost than gained with any legal action against the former fiancée.

I rely on Liceaga v. Baiz, 2019:

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/us/5ca5857a342cca12333d50de

I also cited Liceaga, as it supports that the principles in the Carroll case are still good law. In the former case, the plaintiff was the one who broke the engagement and therefore lost, in the latter case the defendant broke the engagement and the plaintiff won. The OP would have to show that the gift of the ring was a conditional gift (here, the condition being marriage, i.e. it was an engagement gift) and that it was the defendant who broke the engagement and thus was responsible for the condition not being met. That's the bare bones of what the Carroll and Liceaga cases are getting at. Of course we don't know what the ex-financée would say about the matter if it went to court and thus can't say which one might have the more compelling case, but certainly there is the possibility that the OP could win this since he says she broke the engagement.. Whether it is worth the time and expense to pursue it even if he wins is a personal decision he'll have to make.

 

[quincy]

I also cited Liceaga, as it supports that the principles in the Carroll case are still good law. In the former case, the plaintiff was the one who broke the engagement and therefore lost, in the latter case the defendant broke the engagement and the plaintiff won. The OP would have to show that the gift of the ring was a conditional gift (here, the condition being marriage, i.e. it was an engagement gift) and that it was the defendant who broke the engagement and thus was responsible for the condition not being met. That's the bare bones of what the Carroll and Liceaga cases are getting at. Of course we don't know what the ex-financée would say about the matter if it went to court and thus can't say which one might have the more compelling case, but certainly there is the possibility that the OP could win this since he says she broke the engagement.. Whether it is worth the time and expense to pursue it even if he wins is a personal decision he'll have to make.

I believe it would be difficult to show there was actually an engagement, based on the limited amount of information we have been provided here. The woman could very well have seen the ring as just another gift from falcon99usa, a man who seemed to ply her with gifts on a regular basis.

Judging from a previous thread by falcon99usa, it probably would be best in the future if he reduces all property purchases and exchanges to written agreements signed by the parties involved.

I agree it is up to falcon99usa to determine if trying to reclaim property that is in possession of the woman is worth the trouble and expense. It might be, if the woman doesn’t hire an attorney.

 

[Zigner]

Contemporaneous social media posts by the woman bragging about her engagement would go a long way in showing that she knew it was an engagement ring.

 

[quincy]

Contemporaneous social media posts by the woman bragging about her engagement would go a long way in showing that she knew it was an engagement ring.

There are definitely ways falcon99usa could show that the woman considered herself engaged. But the ring was given to her two years ago and nothing has been said here that indicates any sort of wedding was being planned - just a possible plan to live together in falcon99usa’s house in California.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Especially when it comes to things like getting it sized.
Jeweler: We need proof of purchase to size this ring.

Invoice predates the relationship.

Well, when he sets up his dating profile he can stipulate that he's only interested in women with that ring size, LOL.

 

[quincy]

Among all the gifts given by falcon99usa to the woman in Illinois, I am most curious about the “legal name change” falcon99usa paid for ...

 

[falcon99usa]

First of all, I would like to thank you to all of you for info and support.
I am aware of all cases now, and also Illinois law and my limited options about legal ways to retrieve the ring.I will post my reply to all of you within the next 48 hours. I am flying to Chicago on Thursday to meet her, as she might be slightly changing her refusal. In the meantime, I have to ensure you, that it was definitely engagement ring, proposing to her to marry me (at Lincoln Park - Alfred Caldwel Lily Pool) and she said "yes", but because of several delays to move to CA by her (issues like her employment, insurance, and later COVID-19, in additions to her becoming grandma a year ago and taking care of her family during and after pregnancy, etc.); the actual marriage date was not set, until she moves to CA.
As far as other "gifts" and expenses, her income and financial situation is way too low, comparing to mine. Anyway...updates will be posted.

 

[quincy]

First of all, I would like to thank you to all of you for info and support.
I am aware of all cases now, and also Illinois law and my limited options about legal ways to retrieve the ring.I will post my reply to all of you within the next 48 hours. I am flying to Chicago on Thursday to meet her, as she might be slightly changing her refusal. In the meantime, I have to ensure you, that it was definitely engagement ring, proposing to her to marry me (at Lincoln Park - Alfred Caldwel Lily Pool) and she said "yes", but because of several delays to move to CA by her (issues like her employment, insurance, and later COVID-19, in additions to her becoming grandma a year ago and taking care of her family during and after pregnancy, etc.); the actual marriage date was not set, until she moves to CA.
As far as other "gifts" and expenses, her income and financial situation is way too low, comparing to mine. Anyway...updates will be posted.

Thank you for the additional information, falcon99usa.

Updates are always welcome.

We all appreciate the thanks so thank you. Good luck in Chicago.

 

[falcon99usa]

Got it together with a GIA certificate!
Thanks for your help.

 

[quincy]

Got it together with a GIA certificate!
Thanks for your help.

Thanks for the update, falcon99usa.