Expectation of privacy for email accounts.

[quincy]

I think that Erelations (I hope I spelled that right) is a Canadian HR expert. I know that somebody here is a Canadian HR expert.

eerelations has longtime working experience in HR and related employment laws in Canada.

There are no Canadian attorneys from any of the Provinces on FA, however (to my knowledge). There is little reason for them to hang out on a forum that handles only US law questions and US legal concerns.

The laws and case law that apply to our Canadian visitor are those of Ontario, with consideration given to federal privacy laws.

I think members of this forum do disservice to foreign visitors by advising them on laws with which they have no familiarity and no knowledge on how these laws are applied.

 

[LdiJ]

eerelations has longtime working experience in HR and related employment laws in Canada.

There are no Canadian attorneys from any of the Provinces on FA, however (to my knowledge). There is little reason for them to hang out on a forum that handles only US law questions and US legal concerns.

The laws and case law that apply to our Canadian visitor are those of Ontario, with consideration given to federal privacy laws.

I think members of this forum do disservice to foreign visitors by advising them on laws with which they have no familiarity and no knowledge on how these laws are applied.

I agree...however I see no harm in giving some common sense type of advice, as long as the OP is aware that is what it is.

 

[quincy]

I agree...however I see no harm in giving some common sense type of advice, as long as the OP is aware that is what it is.

The problem with offering "common sense" advice to anyone, whether in the US or in another country, is that the law often has nothing at all to do with common sense - or one person's belief of what is common sense.

Ontario, as a note, has some interesting court decisions on employee privacy. Our Canadian poster should seek out legal assistance from an attorney in Ontario prior to taking action.

 

[LdiJ]

The problem with offering "common sense" advice to anyone, whether in the US or in another country, is that the law often has nothing at all to do with common sense - or one person's belief of what is common sense.

Ontario, as a note, has some interesting court decisions on employee privacy. Our Canadian poster should seek out legal assistance from an attorney in Ontario prior to taking action.

This is not an employee privacy case. His old boss, at the old company he worked for wants him to spy on his new boss, at the new company that he works for. His old boss's justification for that is that the old boss lent the new company some money.

Common sense is that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[quincy]

This is not an employee privacy case. His old boss, at the old company he worked for wants him to spy on his new boss, at the new company that he works for. His old boss's justification for that is that the old boss lent the new company some money.

Common sense is that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

The question concerns the expectation of privacy in workplace emails. Please reread the original post.

Frank (former employer) wants MrSparky to forward the emails of Paul (new employer) to him. MrSparky asked about the privacy of emails.

The court decisions out of Ontario need to be read to understand that Ontario addresses email privacy differently than the US does.

Again, "common sense" is not a factor in law. For example, biting the hand that feeds you might be the best thing to do legally if that hand is involved in criminal activities.

 

[eerelations]

I have training and expertise in Canadian privacy laws - I have actually facilitated seminars on the subject to senior management. Privacy laws in Canada play a big role in employment law. However, this situation is not so much a privacy issue as it is an employment issue.

Emails on company-owned computers and related equipment/software are private only to the owners of the company. In this situation, they are not private to OP, they are not private to Frank, they are not private to Paul.

Since Paul is an agent of the company and OP's boss, he has the legal authority to dictate, on the company's behalf, where OP's work emails are forwarded. Frank, however, does not.

OP needs to politely inform Frank that he cannot forward his Paul communications to Frank without Paul's permission. He then needs to go and tell Paul what Frank is asking him to do.

While it's certainly possible OP might get fired for this, it's not nearly as likely as it would be if this was an American situation. It's not only very expensive to fire people in Canada (no such thing as at-will employment law in Canada! mandated large severance packages abound!), in this situation it could well be illegal (this would depend largely on the content of the emails Frank wants to see). And unlike the US, wrongfully terminated employees don't need lawyers to seek redress - all they need to do is report the employer to the relevant enforcement agency and then a whole ton of expensive grief will fall on the employer's head. I've seen it, it can be bad. Sensible employers try to stay away from this kind of trouble.

 

[quincy]

I have training and expertise in Canadian privacy laws - I have actually facilitated seminars on the subject to senior management. Privacy laws in Canada play a big role in employment law. However, this situation is not so much a privacy issue as it is an employment issue.

Emails on company-owned computers and related equipment/software are private only to the owners of the company. In this situation, they are not private to OP, they are not private to Frank, they are not private to Paul.

Since Paul is an agent of the company and OP's boss, he has the legal authority to dictate, on the company's behalf, where OP's work emails are forwarded. Frank, however, does not.

OP needs to politely inform Frank that he cannot forward his Paul communications to Frank without Paul's permission. He then needs to go and tell Paul what Frank is asking him to do.

While it's certainly possible OP might get fired for this, it's not nearly as likely as it would be if this was an American situation. It's not only very expensive to fire people in Canada (no such thing as at-will employment law in Canada! mandated large severance packages abound!), in this situation it could well be illegal (this would depend largely on the content of the emails Frank wants to see). And unlike the US, wrongfully terminated employees don't need lawyers to seek redress - all they need to do is report the employer to the relevant enforcement agency and then a whole ton of expensive grief will fall on the employer's head. I've seen it, it can be bad. Sensible employers try to stay away from this kind of trouble.

First, I want to say I respect your knowledge of Canadian employment laws. Does your experience include employment and privacy laws in Ontario, eerelations?

Ontario has had some fairly recent Court opinions that are unlike decisions made in most other Canadian provinces (British Columbia, Manitoba, Newfoundland, Saskatchewan...), especially when it comes to privacy issues (in the workplace, in emails, in general).

 

[eerelations]

Well, given that my entire career was spent in Ontario, working for employers based in Ontario, yes, I am familiar with Ontario laws. (And anyway, not being physically in a place doesn't preclude one from knowing anything about the laws of that place.)

But as I said before, this isn't a privacy issue, this is an employee relations issue. Frank does not have the legal authority to tell OP to do anything, be it forwarding emails, typing documents, taking out the garbage, whatever. OP doesn't have to quote a law to Frank when he's refusing to forward Paul's emails, all OP has to say is "No I won't do it, because you're not the boss of me." (I would hope though that OP phrases it somewhat more politely.)

 

[quincy]

Well, given that my entire career was spent in Ontario, working for employers based in Ontario, yes, I am familiar with Ontario laws. (And anyway, not being physically in a place doesn't preclude one from knowing anything about the laws of that place.)

But as I said before, this isn't a privacy issue, this is an employee relations issue. Frank does not have the legal authority to tell OP to do anything, be it forwarding emails, typing documents, taking out the garbage, whatever. OP doesn't have to quote a law to Frank when he's refusing to forward Paul's emails, all OP has to say is "No I won't do it, because you're not the boss of me." (I would hope though that OP phrases it somewhat more politely.)

Thank you for providing the additional information. For some reason I thought you had worked in western Canada.

I agree that someone does not have to currently live in a country to know that country's laws. There are a few of us who have lived and worked in other countries and have a working knowledge of that country's laws.

But I have major problems with posters who guess at another country's laws based on what they know of US law and then advise a foreign visitor based on the guesses.

I still believe that, if this forum is going to be open to foreign visitors with legal questions, there should be a section of the forum devoted to them. Right now it is a confusing mess trying to enforce the US Law Only policy.

 

[eerelations]

Thank you for providing the additional information. For some reason I thought you had worked in western Canada.

I agree that someone does not have to currently live in a country to know that country's laws. There are a few of us who have lived and worked in other countries and have a working knowledge of that country's laws.

But I have major problems with posters who guess at another country's laws based on what they know of US law and then advise a foreign visitor based on the guesses.

I still believe that, if this forum is going to be open to foreign visitors with legal questions, there should be a section of the forum devoted to them. Right now it is a confusing mess trying to enforce the US Law Only policy.

I headed the HR function for several Canadian multinationals based in Toronto. (If you're a Canadian multinational, the odds of you being based in Toronto are over 90%.) These companies had offices all over Canada (in addition to offices in the US and in one company, Hong Kong, Australia and Great Britain) so I know a lot about western Canadian employment law too.

I agree that someone here shouldn't be formulating legal responses based on US law to foreigners - while many employment laws might be the same or similar, so many are completely different!

Finally, I'm not so sure that having a foreign section would work. If people are so determined to translate "US Law Only" to mean "International Law" then I don't see them suddenly becoming disciplined enough to place their questions in a foreign law section.

 

[quincy]

... Finally, I'm not so sure that having a foreign section would work. If people are so determined to translate "US Law Only" to mean "International Law" then I don't see them suddenly becoming disciplined enough to place their questions in a foreign law section.

Good point.