Extensive Damage by Tenants

[Lynn63]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

We've had tenants that caused an extensive amount of damage to our home and vacated without notice. This home is a very nice brick home that I had built. We took great pride in it and kept it clean, painted, repaired. In the 1 1/2 years the tenants lived in it, they left holes in several walls, writing on walls, so many pet urine/feces spots on carpet throughout that they literally couldn't be counted (no pets were to be inside per lease agreement), bathroom facet ripped off, unreported roof leak (due to limb hitting roof) which caused extensive damage to roof/wall/ceiling, aerobic septic system lid was left off causing tree limbs, leaves, debris to fall in and ruin motor...not to mention the extension cord the repairman pulled out where the tenant attempted to "work" on it. I picked up 19 bags of trash outside and had to hire someone to haul an old engine off they left sitting in front of the home. ALL the screens were trashed and in the woods. Hwy construction barrels and stop signs were stolen and in the woods as well. I had to hire someone to cut down a HUGE oak tree that had died, because they had cut all the limbs off it, apparently for firewood. It was in the lease to NOT cut trees unless they were already down on the ground. They also had another individual and child living in the home...unreported. The stench in home...horrible, especially with a bag of rotting food from freezer sitting in middle of kitchen floor. Just down right nasty. Needless to say this has made us sick and cost us over $10,000 in repairs. It took 2 1/2 months before it was livable to lease out again. We've just filed a small claims and they have retained a lawyer and requested a jury. We DO have pics of all the damage. We've never been in this position. Should we retain a lawyer as well? Not having much in pocket now, wondering if one would take this on a contingent basis? These people are business owners of a fast food restaurant in this small rural community. Jurors are supposed to be selected from outside of the precinct, but being the popular franchise that it is and the fact that they've employed so many teens in this community, we're wondering how "fair" people will be. We've been shocked that these people would do this. They seemed to be responsible, "professional" people with two grown children. We'll certainly never look at this fast food franchise the same again! Suggestions on what to do? As long as this is, it's actually pretty condensed. I hope I've given enough info. Thank you for your time.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

We've had tenants that caused an extensive amount of damage to our home and vacated without notice. This home is a very nice brick home that I had built. We took great pride in it and kept it clean, painted, repaired. In the 1 1/2 years the tenants lived in it, they left holes in several walls, writing on walls, so many pet urine/feces spots on carpet throughout that they literally couldn't be counted (no pets were to be inside per lease agreement), bathroom facet ripped off, unreported roof leak (due to limb hitting roof) which caused extensive damage to roof/wall/ceiling, aerobic septic system lid was left off causing tree limbs, leaves, debris to fall in and ruin motor...not to mention the extension cord the repairman pulled out where the tenant attempted to "work" on it. I picked up 19 bags of trash outside and had to hire someone to haul an old engine off they left sitting in front of the home. ALL the screens were trashed and in the woods. Hwy construction barrels and stop signs were stolen and in the woods as well. I had to hire someone to cut down a HUGE oak tree that had died, because they had cut all the limbs off it, apparently for firewood. It was in the lease to NOT cut trees unless they were already down on the ground. They also had another individual and child living in the home...unreported. The stench in home...horrible, especially with a bag of rotting food from freezer sitting in middle of kitchen floor. Just down right nasty. Needless to say this has made us sick and cost us over $10,000 in repairs. It took 2 1/2 months before it was livable to lease out again. We've just filed a small claims and they have retained a lawyer and requested a jury. We DO have pics of all the damage. We've never been in this position. Should we retain a lawyer as well? Not having much in pocket now, wondering if one would take this on a contingent basis? These people are business owners of a fast food restaurant in this small rural community. Jurors are supposed to be selected from outside of the precinct, but being the popular franchise that it is and the fact that they've employed so many teens in this community, we're wondering how "fair" people will be. We've been shocked that these people would do this. They seemed to be responsible, "professional" people with two grown children. We'll certainly never look at this fast food franchise the same again! Suggestions on what to do? As long as this is, it's actually pretty condensed. I hope I've given enough info. Thank you for your time.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

**A: hire an attorney to go after them.

 

[Lynn63]

**A: hire an attorney to go after them.

Do you think it would be to our benefit to find one on a contingent basis? Or to find and pay one hourly? We already have a list of damages and amounts compiled along with receipts. The downside is, we live out of state, so finding a lawyer is a bit challenging. I made to trip to TX 2 weeks ago and submitted a copy of our info, their lawyers response, as well as left the pics (we still have pics on a CD), but have yet to hear back from this lawyer. He wasn't going to be able to review it until last week...and was suppose to give us a call. We called yesterday and he was suppose to return call. Still waiting. Am I just being too impatient, or is this the norm and we just need to wait? Or should we continue seeking a lawyer to take this. Court is scheduled for April. We still have some time, but we just need to know it's in good hands and not hanging over our heads. We've even wondered, when we obtain a lawyer, should we continue the pursuit in small claims since our expenses exceeded $10,000 (this isn't counting the 10 hour round trips, hotel expenses, and the labor that I did), or should we take it a step higher?

 

[HomeGuru]

Do you think it would be to our benefit to find one on a contingent basis? Or to find and pay one hourly? We already have a list of damages and amounts compiled along with receipts. The downside is, we live out of state, so finding a lawyer is a bit challenging. I made to trip to TX 2 weeks ago and submitted a copy of our info, their lawyers response, as well as left the pics (we still have pics on a CD), but have yet to hear back from this lawyer. He wasn't going to be able to review it until last week...and was suppose to give us a call. We called yesterday and he was suppose to return call. Still waiting. Am I just being too impatient, or is this the norm and we just need to wait? Or should we continue seeking a lawyer to take this. Court is scheduled for April. We still have some time, but we just need to know it's in good hands and not hanging over our heads. We've even wondered, when we obtain a lawyer, should we continue the pursuit in small claims since our expenses exceeded $10,000 (this isn't counting the 10 hour round trips, hotel expenses, and the labor that I did), or should we take it a step higher?

**A: you should have hired an attorney first and filed in regular claims not small claims court. In any case, visit/talk to several law firms until you find the right attorney to handle your case. Do not engage on contingency.

 

[Lynn63]

**A: you should have hired an attorney first and filed in regular claims not small claims court. In any case, visit/talk to several law firms until you find the right attorney to handle your case. Do not engage on contingency.

Thank you for the feedback, HomeGuru. Like I said, we've never been in this position before, so really didn't know the ropes. Trying to save on even more expenses, we went the small claims way. When we find a lawyer, is it too late to just dismiss the small claims and go to regular court? Sorry for all the questions and do appreciate the feedback. We live and learn...the hard way unfortunately.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Thank you for the feedback, HomeGuru. Like I said, we've never been in this position before, so really didn't know the ropes. Trying to save on even more expenses, we went the small claims way. When we find a lawyer, is it too late to just dismiss the small claims and go to regular court? Sorry for all the questions and do appreciate the feedback. We live and learn...the hard way unfortunately.

What do you mean "regular court?"

It is my suggestion, since you already filed the case and are waiting on a court date, is just get out there with your evidence. If you have a strong enough case, then you will likely win the money you are looking for.

(I think if you are a corporation or an LLC then you definitely need a lawyer, I believe thats required mostly everywhere.)

Then after you win, you can spend the money you would have spent on a lawyer to try to collect on the judgment.

Good luck.

Oh 10,000 sorry, I didn't read the post first. Well thats above the limit in small claims, Do you have pictures of before they moved in?

It seems to me that with enough evidence, pictures, receipts of cleaning and whatever else you had to do, a jury will clearly see that they severely damaged your property, and since they are so rich, you they should award you all of the cost. Including court costs. So, yes you should definitely get a lawyer, but probably none will be on a contingency, and get him to drop the small claims, and bring it in the proper court of damages above 5K.

 

[Lynn63]

What do you mean "regular court?"

It is my suggestion, since you already filed the case and are waiting on a court date, is just get out there with your evidence. If you have a strong enough case, then you will likely win the money you are looking for.

(I think if you are a corporation or an LLC then you definitely need a lawyer, I believe thats required mostly everywhere.)

Then after you win, you can spend the money you would have spent on a lawyer to try to collect on the judgment.

Good luck.

Oh 10,000 sorry, I didn't read the post first. Well thats above the limit in small claims, Do you have pictures of before they moved in?

It seems to me that with enough evidence, pictures, receipts of cleaning and whatever else you had to do, a jury will clearly see that they severely damaged your property, and since they are so rich, you they should award you all of the cost. Including court costs. So, yes you should definitely get a lawyer, but probably none will be on a contingency, and get him to drop the small claims, and bring it in the proper court of damages above 5K.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, we do have photos, and I guess what I meant by "regular court" was what you referred to as "proper court of damages above 5K". When one isn't familiar with dealing with legal issues such as this, we don't really know what legal lingo to use. (we're not a LLC....just regular home owners that have this one rental property). Thanks again.

 

[atomizer]

You have the advantage. When word gets out that they are total slobs, their business will suffer. If you win, their credit and ability to obtain loans may also be affected.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, we do have photos, and I guess what I meant by "regular court" was what you referred to as "proper court of damages above 5K". When one isn't familiar with dealing with legal issues such as this, we don't really know what legal lingo to use. (we're not a LLC....just regular home owners that have this one rental property). Thanks again.

Well, then I agree that you do in fact have the best advantage, and if you tell me the county of the property, I will try to find out which court you should file in, and you should invest in traveling to win, as opposed to getting a lawyer to do what you really could yourself.

But the up side of the lawyer, is like I said, you can be awarded court fees including the lawyer. So you know, whatever you want to do, you are in the green in doing so.

Don't be afraid of the lawyer, they are just trying to scare you into not coming, or dropping it.

I say call their bluff, and drop the small claims and bring it to the higher court.

 

[musicman654321]

Thank you for the feedback, HomeGuru. Like I said, we've never been in this position before, so really didn't know the ropes. Trying to save on even more expenses, we went the small claims way. When we find a lawyer, is it too late to just dismiss the small claims and go to regular court? Sorry for all the questions and do appreciate the feedback. We live and learn...the hard way unfortunately.

You can file a motion to dismiss without prejudice with the court for the small claims ... most judges will allow it. If the judge dismisses it with prejudice then you're case is done.

An attny should know. And if a prospective attny is not willing to return your contact then how good do you think he will be in the case management? Poor, thats what.

Lotsa attnys are out there looking for work ...

In regards to small claims v regular court you need to look at the following factors: 1) $$$ of damage 2) $$$ of attny cost 3) $$$ of attny fees that are recoverable 4) willingness to wait for $$$ (regular court could be much longer, years possibly) 5) your ability to prosecute/willingness to represent yourself

You should know all these factors and weigh them in your consideration. If attny fees are not recoverable & your attny fees end up being 5K ; then a 5K v 10K judgment (sm. claims v. regular court) would be equal & then the other factors take on more importance. And its up to you to prove your damages .. its easier to prove 5K v. 10K until you have the work done...regular court will not be impressed with estimates.

 

[Banned_Princess]

You can file a motion to dismiss without prejudice with the court for the small claims ... most judges will allow it. If the judge dismisses it with prejudice then you're case is done.

An attny should know. And if a prospective attny is not willing to return your contact then how good do you think he will be in the case management? Poor, thats what.

Lotsa attnys are out there looking for work ...

In regards to small claims v regular court you need to look at the following factors: 1) $$$ of damage 2) $$$ of attny cost 3) $$$ of attny fees that are recoverable 4) willingness to wait for $$$ (regular court could be much longer, years possibly) 5) your ability to prosecute/willingness to represent yourself

You should know all these factors and weigh them in your consideration. If attny fees are not recoverable & your attny fees end up being 5K ; then a 5K v 10K judgment (sm. claims v. regular court) would be equal & then the other factors take on more importance. And its up to you to prove your damages .. its easier to prove 5K v. 10K until you have the work done...regular court will not be impressed with estimates.

This was a fantastic contribution. Thank you.

Even I was just able to decide what to do lol.

Of course I would be comfortable representing myself, And I believe you too Lynn could be comfortable representing yourself, if you just do some homework, and believe in what you are saying.

If you actually have the work done and have receipts, photographic evidence. (hopefully your photos are time stamped.) and it is clear to anyone you ask about it that you are right, then that helps to build confidence. For example, as long as you have the evidence you claim I bet we all think you will win. I mean what could be their defense? did you send notice that the security is being withheld for the damage within the time frame? Please, I think if you at least sent it that will be fine. I mean your in TX, the Tennant has a small chance from the start, and this particular tenant tore your house down.

To be honest, I would include the rent for the two months you needed to fix the place, just back to its original condition. and even if thats not awarded, it wont hurt your case at all, and maybe it will be awarded.


Go sit in on the small claims court where you will ask for the dismissal without prejudice, know what you want to say, and pick some of your most persuasive evidence and use it first, it might be easier then you thought.


Finally, on the upside of collecting the judgment, I find people who have a credit, and own things, are more willing to pay then someone who has nothing anyway, so your chances of collecting is higher then usual as well.

 

[atomizer]

Good way to lose the fear of going to court is to spend as much time as possibe there as an interested citizen. You can watch deadbeat after deadbeat get dispatched. You can also take names for your do not rent to file.

 

[Lynn63]

I truly appreciate all the feedback. I only wish I lived closer (we live in AR 5 hours away) to be able to sit in and watch cases and take names for a "do not rent to" list. lol. GREAT idea by the way. On the photos...no, they are not time stamped! Another live and learn thing. From here on out, they definitely will be. I would feel comfortable with us representing ourselves with the photos, receipts of repairs, etc. that we do have if not for the fact that the photo's are not time stamped and we're afraid their lawyer will find a way to dismiss them as evidence.

I've wondered about some of the repairmen...if they should be used as witnesses? They saw the shape the place was left in and even complained about the stench. I whole-heartedly believe in what I have to say. Still, when you're not used to dealing with legal matters, it is quite intimidating.

We were able to speak with a paralegal from the lawyers office who apologized profusely for not getting back with us in a timely manner. The reason we wanted to use this particular lawyer is that they are known by family to be of good character, plus he has rental properties and deals with the headaches that go along with it. So...in short, we know he knows tenant/landlord laws. There's no other lawyer in that area listed as a real estate lawyer or one who specializes in that area.

I don't know what other homework we would need to do. (Enlighten this poor ignorant soul? I'm not sure what "dismiss without prejudice" even means, but I will do homework on that to learn. I've also read about others winning cases and having to file a Writ of Execution in order to collect. Is that something we should ask the lawyer about? These people did live in the home 1/2 a month, and when we didn't receive the rent (we always did on time), we called. That's when they informed us they found a "good deal" on a home to buy over that weekend and was moving out. (We are fully aware that those things take time.). The tenant stated to "just keep the deposit" since they didn't give notice. When asked what condition the home was in, "good" was replied. I drove 5 hours in torrential rain that night to find it a grown up mess with the power shut off. I almost wish daylight hadn't come for me to see the place! lol. We basically were out that month and the next two months getting the home back in livable condition, so we were going to ask for 3 months of loss rent. Anyways...I feel I'm rambling at this point. Sorry! And thanks so much again for the input.

 

[Banned_Princess]

I truly appreciate all the feedback. I only wish I lived closer (we live in AR 5 hours away) to be able to sit in and watch cases and take names for a "do not rent to" list. lol. GREAT idea by the way. On the photos...no, they are not time stamped! Another live and learn thing. From here on out, they definitely will be. I would feel comfortable with us representing ourselves with the photos, receipts of repairs, etc. that we do have if not for the fact that the photo's are not time stamped and we're afraid their lawyer will find a way to dismiss them as evidence.

Well, since you know that to be something they can use, prepare for that.. For example, push the reciepts for the fixing of the damage in the picture.

For example, you say all the screens were broken up in the woods behind the house, pair that picture up with the work order, or the final bill / reciept for all new window screens replaced...

I've wondered about some of the repairmen...if they should be used as witnesses? They saw the shape the place was left in and even complained about the stench. I whole-heartedly believe in what I have to say. Still, when you're not used to dealing with legal matters, it is quite intimidating.

If they can be available to sit in court with you incase you need them, that would be good. Plus it will give you aditional confidence in the solidness of your case.

We were able to speak with a paralegal from the lawyers office who apologized profusely for not getting back with us in a timely manner. The reason we wanted to use this particular lawyer is that they are known by family to be of good character, plus he has rental properties and deals with the headaches that go along with it. So...in short, we know he knows tenant/landlord laws. There's no other lawyer in that area listed as a real estate lawyer or one who specializes in that area.

Well, if he is reasonably priced, and you can get that money back in the jugement... thats an option you can take if you really feel like you need one. Personally, I really dont think you need one. But your piece of mind is what you are really looking for. Lawyers are good for that.

I don't know what other homework we would need to do. (Enlighten this poor ignorant soul?

Well, just one afternoon in the court you will be in, will make a load of difference, you can see how it works, what the judge is looking for, plus, like it was said, you will feel better when you see no bullS*** will be accepted, and the right one will prevail.

I'm not sure what "dismiss without prejudice" even means,

Dissmissed without prejudice means the judge finds you should file in the higher court, or that you werent ready, and you can try again.

With prejudice means you cannot file again, and you loose.

I've also read about others winning cases and having to file a Writ of Execution in order to collect. Is that something we should ask the lawyer about?

Yes, sitting with a lawyer, going over what you have and what you can ask for, and how to collect your winnings, will also boost your confidence, as well as give you some tips you can use.. Or you will find it would be much less stressful just to hire him and have him handle it. Either way its a good idea.

These people did live in the home 1/2 a month, and when we didn't receive the rent (we always did on time), we called. That's when they informed us they found a "good deal" on a home to buy over that weekend and was moving out. (We are fully aware that those things take time.). The tenant stated to "just keep the deposit" since they didn't give notice. When asked what condition the home was in, "good" was replied. I drove 5 hours in torrential rain that night to find it a grown up mess with the power shut off. I almost wish daylight hadn't come for me to see the place! lol. We basically were out that month and the next two months getting the home back in livable condition, so we were going to ask for 3 months of loss rent. Anyways...I feel I'm rambling at this point. Sorry! And thanks so much again for the input.

Well, being a landlord comes with just this kind of risk. Hopefully it will just be over with when you win, and they pay you your deserved money.

Good luck. Please come back and let us know how it went, we always like follow ups !

 

[FarmerJ]

BP said > Finally, on the upside of collecting the judgment, I find people who have a credit, and own things, are more willing to pay then someone who has nothing anyway, so your chances of collecting is higher then usual as well.
<< things for some tenants do indeed improve over time, they find they want to buy a new car and have the means to do it , but dont qaulify for lower interest rates because they learn they have a judgement, they apply for a good job and credit history comes up when employer checks hist they may be denied. and last but not least , they find some really nice rentals they like , they can be denied as other LLs learn about the details of the court records , theres lots of screening firms out there that are used by LLs and some tenants with judgments find out the hard way that they are reduced to renting some less than nice places or in some cases are forced to live in some rotten nieghborhoods.