Following Advice

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

I thought long and hard about whether to post this at all. What finalized my decision to post was the idea that others are blindly following some of the incorrect advice they receive here the way I did- to their own, or their children's detriment.

For the duration of my custody situation (8 years) I have followed the advice about how to properly co-parent so as not to "cross a line" and get on the bad side of court, the GAL or the judge. In particular I have followed the advice of the most prolific licensed attorney on this site, OhioGal. I truly believe that this advice has hurt my case. I truly believe this advice has set me up to play by rules that do not really exist, rules that the court doesn't actually care about and certainly rules that my ex would never follow. My hands have been tied and my focus diverted the entire time. Because of this I am on the brink of not seeing my son at all for the rest of the time he is a minor (1.5 years) because his father is better at playing the game while I have been operating under the idea that the court will surely see that I am interested in co=parenting, communication, actual best interests, and both parents being equally involved.

I do believe the advice given is somewhat given in the spirit of wanting to create a perfect custody scenario (albeit often poorly or crassly delivered) but in real life it just does not work. I realized today while in court for contempt against my ex AGAIN, that the court really does not care one bit about the outcome. They do not care that there are multiple futures related to their decisions. They don't care about making a situation right. They don't care about your rights. They want you out of their face. If I had stopped fighting years ago- they would actually think they had a success story. My son would not have a mother and they would think they had done their job. My court knows my ex and his wife want me out of my sons life- the judge knows it, the GAL knows it, my ex has made it abundantly clear yet not one single thing has ever been done about it.

In response to that idea the GAL recommended reducing my time based on the fact that the parents "can't get along" and the judge followed along with that and ordered a restricted order. The court refused to acknowledge that it only takes one person to "not get along" and instead just blamed us both equally. I have been following the advice from here. I admit I did not have an attorney and that is my fault for not figuring out a way to afford one. But based on the focus of most of the advice given relating to custody I should have won. The court should have somehow penalized my ex. I did not and my ex has only been emboldened and encouraged.

I'm sure I may be banned for this post because it calls into question a protected member but I did not feel right not sharing my experience. The best advice you can get is to figure out a way to afford a very good attorney. Ohiogal's and other's advice may work in their locale but it is certainly not universal and I dare say not even practical if the other side is willing to do whatever it takes to cut you out.

You get what you pay for I guess.

I've written and rewritten this a couple of times and I'm still not sure it's going to come out right, but here goes. I hope your post isn't deleted because you deserve to share your point of view as much as anyone here.

I'm not intimately familiar with your case, Zephyr, so please forgive me. I can't really comment, y'know?

The only thing I do know is as a rule, the general information shared is pretty accurate on the whole. Perhaps not for every county in every State (that would be impossible to predict), but just in general. And yes, courts do sometimes throw a curve ball the size of Mt Vesuvius (oh man, have I just found that out - for REAL. Despite EVERYTHING 2 attorneys, one judge AND several well-educated laymen had opined about a certain family-related issue, the court went in the other direction completely - but I digress).

In all honesty one of the most dangerous things is the use of "party lines". "The burden of proof is on the relocating parent to show why the relocation is in the child's best interest" <---- simply NOT true at all in MANY states. That's just an example.

But on the whole, I still think - and yeah, I'm the eternal optimist - that the forum is doing more good than harm. For the time being, at least.

I'm also genuinely sorry that things haven't gone as you wished. My heart breaks for you.

And yes, unfortunately you do speak a very plain and painful truth - sometimes, no matter what's in the best interest of the child, money talks. And walks away with the child.

 

[Zephyr]

Thanks Pro...I didn't take it the wrong way. I do agree with you, I just think we get hyped up here because we see others being bashed for doing the exact things my ex has been and is doing and they are told they will lose custody for it, and I don;t believe that is the reality. Moving yes, alienating-no. And- like you said- money walks.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I remember being in court for my X being in contempt and BOTH of us being yelled at. They consider it two who have to tango.

 

[mommyanme]

I remember being in court for my X being in contempt and BOTH of us being yelled at. They consider it two who have to tango.

I too was recently in court for show cause. The 1 inch high stack of certified emails and 2 phones of 1000 abusive texts messages that were laden with threats of criminal charges, contempt charges, what a horrible person and parent I was 4 voicemails ranting about how I'll be in jail, my child in state custody and my youngest in his custody never to be seen again. Blatant reinterpretations of the order, changes in rules and guess what happened****************************..

 

[gr8rn]

I remember being in court for my X being in contempt and BOTH of us being yelled at. They consider it two who have to tango.

This happened to me as well. I don't know your case either zephyr and it's so disheartening to hear that this happens.

My only advise, not knowing the specifics, is just to keep fighting and advocating for your child, and hopefully you will see things turn around for you. There have been times in my case that I realized that the other party had a better attorney, who was willing to believe him, no matter how much b.s. he told her, and she ran circles around my attorney. Things went pretty badly but I just kept fighting for my child, went to a lot of court ordered counseling, and thankfully, he ran out of money way before I did.

 

[nanu156]

I remember being in court for my X being in contempt and BOTH of us being yelled at. They consider it two who have to tango.

Mine admitted to 11 counts!!!! ADMITTED TO 11!!! the judge said that parents cant be effective from jail or something of the likes, and did nothing. She did ask for atty fees and got laughed at, but 11 counts!!!!!

The judge for my other michigan case sent the mom to jail for 10 days on a single count, that in my opinion was a much lesser infraction. (I wanted medical cards, mom said no)

Some judges are about rules and some are about forcing people to get along, there is no hard and fast rule....

Same mom who had 11 counts got our daughter removed by CPS and continued to be custodial parent because she was trying and our daughter "was accustomed" to her home being the primary home....

There aren't hard and fast rules to this stuff.

 

[Ohiogal]

And the last time I tried to help you? When was that exactly? Huh? I see 2009 as the last time I responded to your thread. Let's look at your threads shall we:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/search.php?searchid=312786

And the last thing I posted was in response to a question -- that I didn't really know the answer to your question. So in three years of you having no threads prior to this one, it is my fault that your case went poorly. Got it. How I am to blame again? Oh because you need a scapegoat. You have done NO actions without listening to YOUR attorney or by making your own decisions? It is all because of me, right? I mean that is what you are saying. Got it. Whatever.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Mine admitted to 11 counts!!!! ADMITTED TO 11!!! the judge said that parents cant be effective from jail or something of the likes, and did nothing. She did ask for atty fees and got laughed at, but 11 counts!!!!!

The judge for my other michigan case sent the mom to jail for 10 days on a single count, that in my opinion was a much lesser infraction. (I wanted medical cards, mom said no)

Some judges are about rules and some are about forcing people to get along, there is no hard and fast rule....

Same mom who had 11 counts got our daughter removed by CPS and continued to be custodial parent because she was trying and our daughter "was accustomed" to her home being the primary home....

There aren't hard and fast rules to this stuff.

I my case, I DID ask for attorney fees and associated fees; I was awarded in the last three cases. My judge does NOT want to see either of us. Nothing against my judge, but I don't want to see her either. Since my X has NEVER coughed up a dime voluntarily since I've known him, I will have to do garnishments.

I played by the rules; my X did not. In my case, it went okay. I asked for supervised after the last stunt, along with bond, but did not get it. Luckily, it went well this year. I just pray for the next 2.25 years that there are no further occurrences.

What I think is key here is that we do NOT know how a judge will rule. Each has their viewpoint. Of three of us, it has gone differently in each of our cases. The one difference that I can note of the three of us is that I am the only one with an attorney - the other two went pro se. Does that make that significant a difference? Could be.

 

[commentator]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

I believe that this advice has hurt my case. I truly believe this advice has set me up to play by rules that do not really exist,
I admit I did not have an attorney and that is my fault for not figuring out a way to afford one. But based on the focus of most of the advice given relating to custody I should have won. The court should have somehow penalized my ex. I did not and my ex has only been emboldened and encouraged.
I'm sure I may be banned for this post because it calls into question a protected member but I did not feel right not sharing my experience. The best advice you can get is to figure out a way to afford a very good attorney. Ohiogal's and other's advice may work in their locale but it is certainly not universal and I dare say not even practical if the other side is willing to do whatever it takes to cut you out.

You get what you pay for I guess.

...SHOULD have. I want the rules to work the way I want them to work. They SHOULD have worked that way. Prison is just full of people who are mad at their lawyers and want the money back that they paid to them. Since you decided to go without one, which was not wise anyway, you cannot say how things might have gone if you had had one. You decided to go with only, you claim, the general advice you received here. Which hasn't been requested or received since about four years ago. Now you're casting about and decide to blame someone on this site because the judge did not see your situation as you feel he//she SHOULD have. To quote a line from an old movie, there are no rules in a knife fight.

We SHOULD never lose sight of the fact that this is a knife fight, in fact, a very important serious one. And there are at least two very distinct sides to each case. Ohio gives general advice, but she doesn't know you, isn't there, can't see and feel what is going on in a situation. And you cannot ever claim that it is her fault that you didn't win. No matter how much a judge tries to be objective, if they are actually trying, there is always another factor, what is there before them.

 

[stealth2]

In for a penny... I have to say that while I often object to the delivery of OG's message, I don;t see it at all fair to call her out for being the cause of your case's outcome, Zephyr. I think we all make it clear that WE do not know all the specifics, and all WE can do is offer general information. What a poster does with that info? Well... sorry, but it's not right to then come back and point fingers, ya know? We're all adults here. We should all understand that a stranger on the 'Net is in no way able to provide an end-all, be-all solution for our situation. Yes, really.

I will also say that I haven't gone back to read your threads, Zephyr - although I will when I'm done with this post. But many - if not most of us - have dealt with less than ideal divorce/custody situations with less than ideal other parents. Some have had better outcomes than others. It's always easiest to point a finger elsewhere. Just remember where the other fingers point. Just sayin'...

 

[nanu156]

What I think is key here is that we do NOT know how a judge will rule. Each has their viewpoint. Of three of us, it has gone differently in each of our cases. The one difference that I can note of the three of us is that I am the only one with an attorney - the other two went pro se. Does that make that significant a difference? Could be.

I have an attorney. I have handled both of my open cases with an attorney. I do handle some of the stuff pro-se, like filings and that kind of thing to reduce costs.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I have an attorney. I have handled both of my open cases with an attorney. I do handle some of the stuff pro-se, like filings and that kind of thing to reduce costs.

I live out of state; an attorney makes my life easier normally.

 

[gam]

Well I can get Zephyr's post, as the same thing happened in my one daughter's case. One side wanted to cut out the other, and the court always blamed both parties for not being able to co-parent. Some courts and some Judges go by their own rules, they do not follow laws or even common sense.

But as a general rule the advice of seniors here including Ohiogal does work and is always worth a try. In my daughter's case while the courts never listened, blamed both sides and her ex didn't get far with his monthly filings, she continued to follow the advice of co-parenting. She did what was right, she co-parented by herself, and it eventually rubbed off on the other party.

So while it won't work in all cases, it will work in many, even when the court is pretty useless. I have a Niece that it does not work in her case, her court is not much better then my daughter's and her children will be 18 and her ex will never get it, but it is what is. Something one must just deal with and realize that nothing is going to change the situation, you just learn to deal with it the way it is.

Going to court next week with my other daughter. Her ex disappeared for the past 2.5 years, but he is back and asking for the court for the world. Not sure if he is one to ever get it, but I will continue to have my daughter read this site, follow the advice of co-parenting with or without him. She has no choice as she chose this person to father her child, something everyone needs to wake up and face at some point in their case and just deal with what they have chose.

 

[stealth2]

Well... having now invested the last 1 1/2 hours readin a majority of Zephyr's 83 threads, I have to say that I think it is completely unfair to hold OG's feet to the fire for the outcome of Zephyr's case, OR for the relationship she shares (or doesn't) with her son. A heck of a lot more input (most of it similar to OG's) was given by other posters - many of whom are still active here - who Z did not feel compelled to call on the carpet.

Poor form, IMO.

 

[Silverplum]

Well... having now invested the last 1 1/2 hours readin a majority of Zephyr's 83 threads, I have to say that I think it is completely unfair to hold OG's feet to the fire for the outcome of Zephyr's case, OR for the relationship she shares (or doesn't) with her son. A heck of a lot more input (most of it similar to OG's) was given by other posters - many of whom are still active here - who Z did not feel compelled to call on the carpet.

I wonder, do posters look at the long term? Do you, Zephyr, and do others have such a short-sighted view of how long your relationship with your child/ren could and should be?

Children don't remain children, and most establish their own lives once they are adults. That's when the children choose with whom they will spend their holidays, their phone calls, their visits, their level of sharing their lives with their parent/s.

Stealth knows. I know. I'm sure some others know this, also. Consider the long term effects of your actions. Your child/ren know how you acted and how you reacted. They know what you did to protect and encourage them.

Poor form, IMO.

I agree.