Going Crazy-Can I file?

[jennpickles]

What is the name of your state? Just moved to LA from MO.

Okay, here is a detailed list of what we bring in vs. what we send out. Do you believe Chapter 7 would be an option in MO??

We bring home approx. 3500.00 to 3600.00 after all taxes per month (combined). We have not put into our 401K plans for about 8 months now because we haven't felt that we could afford to.

Our bills are as follows:

Rent (we don't own a home or any land) 800.00
Car 1 377.00
Car 2 467.00
Personal loan 307.00
Bank one Card 681.00
Orchard card 20.00
Bank Of Amer. card 200.00
Capitol One card 10.00
His Ex wife (we realize this won't go away) 200.00
Childcare (as soon as I'm not on Maternity leave-in about 2 weeks) 700.00+
Store cr. Card 17.00
Lowes card 90.00
trash 10.00
water 10.00
Elec. 45.00
Gas 45.00
Computer payment 50.00
cellphones 100.00
gas (auto) 100.00
Groc. 300.00+ (probably more in reality for family of 4)
home phone 65.00
cable 60.00
aol 21.00
__________
$ 4675.00+

Keep in mind that EVERY one of these are the MINIMUM payments every month. I have crunched these numbers every way I can, and this is the lowest they can possibly become. I am scared that they are going to make him file for Chapter 13, and then we will have to live off what THEY feel fit. As far as I can tell Chapter 13 leaves no room for things such as car repairs, medicines if the kids get sick, etc. This is making me a nervous wreck! Any advice would be great. Thank you in advance...

 

[ihatearizona]

What is the name of your state? Just moved to LA from MO.

Okay, here is a detailed list of what we bring in vs. what we send out. Do you believe Chapter 7 would be an option in MO??

We bring home approx. 3500.00 to 3600.00 after all taxes per month (combined). We have not put into our 401K plans for about 8 months now because we haven't felt that we could afford to.

Our bills are as follows:

Rent (we don't own a home or any land) 800.00
Car 1 377.00
Car 2 467.00
His Ex wife (we realize this won't go away) 200.00
Childcare (as soon as I'm not on Maternity leave-in about 2 weeks) 700.00+
trash 10.00
water 10.00
Elec. 45.00
Gas 45.00
cellphones 100.00
gas (auto) 100.00
Groc. 300.00+ (probably more in reality for family of 4)
home phone 65.00
cable 60.00
aol 21.00
__________
$ 4675.00+

Keep in mind that EVERY one of these are the MINIMUM payments every month. I have crunched these numbers every way I can, and this is the lowest they can possibly become. I am scared that they are going to make him file for Chapter 13, and then we will have to live off what THEY feel fit. As far as I can tell Chapter 13 leaves no room for things such as car repairs, medicines if the kids get sick, etc. This is making me a nervous wreck! Any advice would be great. Thank you in advance...

Okay: Here's what I'm assuming your monthly bills would be should you file for Chpt 7:

Rent (we don't own a home or any land) 800.00
Car 1 377.00
Car 2 467.00
His Ex wife (we realize this won't go away) 200.00
Childcare (as soon as I'm not on Maternity leave-in about 2 weeks) 700.00+
trash 10.00
water 10.00
Elec. 45.00
Gas 45.00
cellphones 100.00
gas (auto) 100.00
Groc. 300.00+ (probably more in reality for family of 4)
home phone 65.00
cable 60.00
aol 21.00
TOTAL: $3300.00

INCOME: $3500.00

That would only leave you $200.00 a month. (And just a word of advice - $300.00 for food for a family of 4 is WAY LOW).

If these numbers are true then I don't see any reason why you couldn't file Chapter 7.

 

[jennpickles]

We actually had decided that we would let the 467.00 vehicle go, and try to keep the other. This would work, right?

 

[ihatearizona]

We actually had decided that we would let the 467.00 vehicle go, and try to keep the other. This would work, right?

You would have to account for the extra $467.00 that you would have once you stop paying.

There's lots of other expenses that you haven't even thought of such as:
Clothing
Laundry
Health Care
Home Maintenance

And as I said before, your food allowance is WAY low.

 

[2farindebt]

categories for expenses

Jenn,
Here are the different expenses that are on schedule J that you fill out when you file bankruptcy. Look them over and add where you can and repost your expenses again.

Rent
Utilities (there is a category called "other" and our lawyer put "internet" here)
Food (we listed $426 for a family of just 2 and it was okay)
Clothing (little ones need new clothes all the time, right?)
Laundry and dry cleaning (I calculated my Tide/bleach/softener here)
Medical and dental expenses (do you have prescriptions you refill every month? Do you need dental work done that you have an estimate for? Do you have co-pays with your health insurance?)
Transportation (put gas costs here, figure at $2.00 a gallon. Also list license plates/yearly inspections if you have them for your auto. Do you need any repairs done that are urgent?)
Recreation (within reason you can put an amount here. It can include newspapers and magazines. We put $50 here and it was okay)
Charitable contributions (if you REGULARLY contribute to your church or some other organizations and can PROVE it, put something here)
Insurance (you put your renter's insurance here and any other insurance you pay for that does NOT already come out of your paychecks - including auto insurance)
Installment payments (here you list the debts you plan to keep - you'll need a good reason for anything other than an auto (2 autos if 2 are working is okay). We had to explain that my husband returned to college and needed his laptop for online courses since he travels and is not home to use our main computer).
Alimony and support paid to others.
Final category is "Other". If something doesn't fit anywhere else you can put it here and you have to explain it.

I hope this will help you get those numbers up a bit. You want your expenses to be within $100 of your income, above or below, according to most of what I've read on this forum, to keep you out of a Chapter 13. GOOD LUCK!!

 

[2farindebt]

forgot to mention

Jenn, I, too, think you have to be a resident of the state you are filing in for at least 90 days, but check with the lawyer you consult with. If this is true, you will have to wait at least that long before you can file, otherwise if you file in Missouri, you will have to travel back there to appear in court for your meeting with the creditors (the 341 meeting) because it is mandatory that the debtors (both of you have to go if you file jointly) appear (unless you're in the hospital, I heard).
2far

 

[jennpickles]

So let me make sure that I understand this correctly (quite frankly it's embarassing that I even have to ask seeing as how I've spent countless hours researching this!)

Is the general rule that you want for your disposable income to be 100.00 or less WITH paying all of your minimum payments to your creditors or do you need for it to be 100.00 or less after SUBTRACTING the money that you pay your creditors each month?

Thank you all so much for your help with this!

 

[jennpickles]

Rent (we don't own a home or any land) 800.00
Car 1 377.00
Car 2 467.00
His Ex wife (we realize this won't go away) 200.00
Childcare (as soon as I'm not on Maternity leave-in about 2 weeks) 700.00+
trash 10.00
water 10.00
Elec. 45.00
Gas 45.00
cellphones 100.00
gas (auto) 100.00
Groc. 300.00+ (probably more in reality for family of 4)
home phone 65.00
cable 60.00
aol 21.00
__________
$ 3300.00 After filing

With making adequate adjustments:

add another 160.00 for food
add 75.00 for clothes
add about 20.00 for healthcare
and add 139.50 for auto insurance

That would bring the total to 3694.50...

Also, where do you add diapers exactly-this is a fairly large expense!!

 

[2farindebt]

expenses looking better

Jenn,
First off, don't be embarrased by asking questions. We've all been there, done that, and got over it! haha

Your expenses are looking better. $3694 is good. I'm not sure where diapers would go, but I would take out the expense for cable and one cell phone (our lawyer took both of these out of our expenses and added it to our food total, which I mentioned before was accepted by the trustee) and add $100 to clothing. If questioned by the trustee for $175 in clothing, I would just explain that $100 of it is for baby diapers and the other $75 is normal for having to buy baby clothes quite often.

You want your disposable income to be $100 or less without paying ANYTHING to creditors. Those bills will all be wiped out in the bankruptcy. All you are really reporting to the trustee is your basic living expenses, but what you are doing is trying to figure out all of the things you are hit with over the course of a year and putting a monthly figure on it. I almost forgot to include what we pay for license plates because we buy them once a year and it was going to be months and months before we got the next notice about them being due and I almost forgot a life insurance policy we pay every six months. So, you have to think hard about what expenses you have ALL YEAR LONG and be sure you include them. Your lawyer will tell you where to include expenses that don't fall into a definite category on the schedule. Oh, I just thought of something - do you live in an apartment complex where you pay a monthly fee for a clubhouse or pool or something like that? You should include that if you do because it's an expense you can't get out of. Keep asking your questions and we'll try to answer.

 

[jennpickles]

No, we rent a house.

A few more questions:

1. I had mentioned before that my husband and I had a CC account that had only been opened for about 2-3 months. It has a 10000.00 limit, and it is already maxed out! We transferred three other accounts onto it (paid off my ring, and closed account. Also paid off all but 400.00 of our big screen that we've had over a year. And paid off a smaller CC that had a balance of about 750.00-it's maxed out again now, too.) We also took a cash advance of 3000.00 about a month ago, because we had to pay for rent for the first month, security deposit of the same amount, some furniture that we needed (paid about 450.00), Gas to get back and forth from here to MO., and to pay for food and a hotel while we looked for a house. My husband was given a check from his job to pay for expenses because he took a promotion here, but our account ate all of that up when it was deposited because we were so negative. We were not planning on filing at the time-had never even mentioned it, but now that we are, these things would clearly look "fraudulant" and possibly ruin any chance of getting to file.

2. I also have a family member who has offered to send money to pay off the last owed on t.v., and new computer assuming that if we pay them off they won't be taken. Good idea or not?

Sorry to be sooo detailed..

 

[bigun]

You really need to see a lawyer. The newly opened credit card that is maxxed and, the recent cash advance could well be problems. Most bk lawyers will give free initial consultations. Talk with a couple and get all of your options explained.
Frankly, this burst of activity on charge cards and then a bk filing in industry parlance, looks like a "bust out" and will likely be challeneged by the creditors.
You may well need to put some time between the charges and the bk filing.

 

[Arizona Renter]

I would not take the money from your family member. Here in Arizona(it might be different where you are located) any money that is above $500.0 given to you from a family member is looked upon as "income", and your creditors can go after them as well. I don't think your family member would like that...
Do as the others say and consult an attorney first.

 

[bigun]

Here in Arizona(it might be different where you are located) any money that is above $500.0 given to you from a family member is looked upon as "income", and your creditors can go after them as well.

Would you post the applicable statute to confirm that statement?

 

[jennpickles]

Things have changed a bit since I last posted. I took the money from the family member, but not to pay off anything. I found out 2 days ago that I will only be paid for 6 weeks of maternity leave, when I was told before that I would get paid for 12. Problem is, I have already taken the 12 weeks..So now I get to go back to work and not get paid for the first few weeks, because I was "overpaid" so many hours...We HAD to take that money just to get by. Any doubts I may have had about having to file are now gone..Besides, if they take that into cosideration as income, it's less than what my checks would have been.