Gotta do it Pro Se

[Rnay]

What is the name of your state? Wisconsin (LONG POST ALERT)

Summarizing how I got here, we are dealing with major fallout from addictive/ compulsive behavior. Recovering now, PTL. But as a result of awful decisions I made at the time, I owe personal taxes and debts and I am planning to file for Bankruptcy. I believe even under the new law pending, I will still lqualify for Chapter 7 w/o assets but just in case I am planning to file quickly. My spouse is disabled and gets a small SSDI check. My income is pitiful with poor prospects for improvement. (Thankfully my health insurance is excellent, though.) I have horrendous student loans and I know I have a better chance of becoming president tomorrow than of getting these forgiven. At the time I took them out, we anticipated my husband would get back Social Security to pay them off but they did not go back very far when his appeal eventually got approved. Ie. the SSA admitted they messed up and he should have been getting benefits since ten years before but that oh, due to a loophole they were only paying retro back a year.

The taxes are nearly at the three year mark (within 30 days). However, I am aware how rarely taxes are included in BK discharge. I am also doing an OIC. I did one previously that was rejected, but since then my income has gone down and my living costs have gone up... a lot, so I will have no problem proving outgo is equal or more than income this time. So I am hopeful this time. Also important to note: we had a bankruptcy about 13 years ago (also Pro Se) after a layoff which was granted and discharged.

Because of no credit, no family or friends to borrow from, and nothing to sell or hock, I must go Pro Se. No way around this. I may be able to scrape up enough, depending, to consult with an Enrolled Agent and have them check my work. MY QUESTIONS ARE THIS: 1) Which should I do first, the OIC or the bankruptcy? I am aware that you can't have an open bankruptcy when you do an OIC but we are facing the likely adoption of the BK reform and implementation in 180 days. Again, the taxes are within a month of having been filed > three years ago. I am currently being garnished for the SLs and the taxes and if the garnishments will stop or get suspended while BK or OIC is being processed, this would help me get at least the Enrolled Agent help.

I would appreciate advice from any and all. (Please no shaming/blaming, I am already giving myself plenty.) Thanks.

 

[Rnay]

Oops

I forgot the second question: 2) Are BK books (NOLO) and forms readily available in major bookstores like Barnes/Noble or Waldenbooks? I live in a very small town so will have to travel to find them. And I can't order online, no CC's or checking account anymore. Thanks again...

 

[HomeGuru]

I forgot the second question: 2) Are BK books (NOLO) and forms readily available in major bookstores like Barnes/Noble or Waldenbooks?

**A: they may be.
*******
I live in a very small town so will have to travel to find them. And I can't order online, no CC's or checking account anymore. Thanks again...

**A: go to the library and borrow it free. My library card is worth a lot more than my AX Platinum.

 

[Ladynred]

Yes, the Nolo book is readily available at all the major bookstores. The forms are included in the book. If you can find a RECENT edition at the library, it would be helpful, but all the forms may not be there and some state laws may have changed if the edition the library has is too old. My copy is 3 years old and there have already been THREE revisions to it. The newest edition is set to come out next month.

All of the forms are available here at the US courts web site and probably from your local BK district's court website.

http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/index.html

You can find the Wisconsin BK courts here:
http://www.uscourts.gov/allinks.html#7th

 

[Rnay]

Thanks to both of you, but?

Has anyone got an answer to the first question: Which to do first, the OIC or the bankruptcy? I am THINKING the OIC, because of not being able to do one while you have an open BK.

Thanks again.

 

[AttorneyOney]

Has anyone got an answer to the first question: Which to do first, the OIC or the bankruptcy? I am THINKING the OIC, because of not being able to do one while you have an open BK.

This is one of the types of case where legal advice is absolutely essential to getting the best result. It is definitely not true (as you said in your initial post) that taxes are seldom discharged in bankruptcy. But the rules are technical, and there is a fair amount of case law about what they mean. I'm guessing that you haven't read section 507(a)(8)(A)(ii) of the Bankruptcy Code, because you'd otherwise be asking different questions about OIC's.

 

[Rnay]

Thank you, sir, I will look up that reference in the BK law and hope that will better direct me. I know I ought to have a lawyer's expert representation but it is not feasible at this time and time is of the essence. I did a free consult with JK Harris (found them too costly to contract with) and I also have the experiences of the earlier bankruptcy done successfully pro se (used a fly by nighter who offered and helped with the papers for $150) and having done nearly everything for my husband's SSDI appeal.

As best I understand it, the OIC cannot proceed while a bankruptcy is open. I am leaning toward doing the BK first, that perhaps the courts may be more understanding than the IRS. Then if the taxes are non-dischargeable in total or in part, I would include them in the BK. I understand that I am stuck with the student loans, that these are only forgiven under the very direst of straits. We figured as much when I attended school but we had to get off welfare and make a living wage, not to mention we were anticipating my husband would get much more in the way of retroactive payment from the SSA.

I did successfully negotiate my state taxes to pay less than half with affordable payments. JK Harris offered to redo the state OIC as well as the federal and thought it could be completely eliminated, but as long as I can afford to pay at least some of the debt, I feel I should.

Again, thank you so much for your kind assistance. I absolutely LOVE the information and help available through the internet in today's world!