Grandparents Rights

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

I realize you were just joking with the Bolivia remark, but I hope you don't feel that, if Troxel hadn't occurred, that you would leave just because neither side would have rights.

Sure, some grandparents are demonstrative. No doubt about it. Some GP's just don't know their boundaries, and parents see this as frightening, as well as frustrating.

However, in the long run, who's the one that really gets hurt ? That's right. The child.

Rather go one way or the other, and 100% (or virtually near) to one side, the court could have just as easily made fair rules for both sides. But, I think they copped out, and forgot that a child needs every family member.

I certainly hope that our original writer understands and appreciates the livliness of this discussion, and that it is an open, festering, wound.

Hey, and LB, you know that I still love you, despite our somewhat disparate thoughts on this matter, and even though I still firmly believe you're a Facist !

Talk to you soon, my friend.

IAAL

 

[Pretty24]

GP Rights

Ok i understand where LeagalBeagle is coming from BUT you say that GP,s want to have the say so on how the parents should raise the child just because they are around them for a couple of hours and you say that it's up to the parents to decide if the GP should see the child, (what about the child they don't have ay say so) wrong. well ya see there are sme GPs that want to take over but in my case i don't try to tell my kids how to raise thier children i stand by them on whatever they decide, all Gps are not the same, some do have consideration for not butting in on how to raise other peoples children I am one of them, and you say your a parent, Do you have grandchildren? I don't want to take over the life of my grandchildren all i want is to be able to see them, to go to the park, fishing, tell them about what life was when i was their age and all the things that Gps usually do with them, i have raised 3 sons they are now 22, 21, and 16 yrs and not once did i refuse the GPs the right to see or take my children when they wanted them no matter if i was mad at them, in my case i didn't do anything wrong to make my daughter-in-law mad she told lies about my 16 yr old and when i proved that she lied she got mad and said i wasn't going to see my graddaughter or the baby thats due in Nov. so you see the children are hurting just like me, my mother died before my children were born so they only had thier fathers parents and my GPs, as they grew i seen the hurt they had for the fact they didn't have my parents to grow with, they always told me no matter what i would always be in thier childrens lives but i guess it all depends on the woman they get who is selfish and has no heart to consider the toll it takes on GPs and the children. The law needs to change.

 

[Grandma B]

Amen!

We'll just hope that if and when LB becomes a grandparent someone doesn't put the "hurts" on him. He doesn't know yet that he'll love his "grands" at least as much as he loves his child.

 

[LegalBeagle]

Re: Amen!

We'll just hope that if and when LB becomes a grandparent someone doesn't put the "hurts" on him. He doesn't know yet that he'll love his "grands" at least as much as he loves his child.

So what you are saying is that parents do NOT have absolute rights to decisions concerning the raising of their child? So would it be better to have the government 'own' all the minors and distribute time/resources as necessary?

This whole thing comes down to bounderies. GP's need to know where theirs are. When they start demanding more time or making decisions that go against the wishes of the parent, then it is time to reduce that contact.

As far as I am concerned, I hope that I will one day be a GP in the same manner of my own Grand Parents.. ie, we visited, we played, we left. They never tried to take control or went against my parents.

 

[Grandma B]

Re: Re: Amen!

So what you are saying is that parents do NOT have absolute rights to decisions concerning the raising of their child? So would it be better to have the government 'own' all the minors and distribute time/resources as necessary?

This whole thing comes down to bounderies. GP's need to know where theirs are. When they start demanding more time or making decisions that go against the wishes of the parent, then it is time to reduce that contact.

As far as I am concerned, I hope that I will one day be a GP in the same manner of my own Grand Parents.. ie, we visited, we played, we left. They never tried to take control or went against my parents. [/B]

Please! I'm sorry I wasn't clear. That's not what I'm saying at all. The point I'm trying to get across is that these rulings deny access not only to controlling, interfering GPs, but also to many grandparents who are not controlling or interfering.

All it takes is for one parent to decide, and not necessarily for noble reasons, that they are going to "punish" a GP. All parents, as I said earlier, are NOT nice or fair people. This is hard on the grandparent who may have had a close relationship with the child/children for many years, but it is also hurtful and unfair to the youngster(s).

I had only one grandfather and no grandmothers as a child, which has caused me to work at being the best GP I know how, and my grandchildren adore me. That does not guarantee that for some unknown reason, I could possibly never see them again. That thought breaks my heart!

 

[mysticaldoll]

hi all,i'm new to this forum and glad i found it. i was reading what others had to say about grandparents rights and parents rights,i have to agree with LB because i'm also having problems with my kids grand-mother,who tries to tell me how i should raise my own kids,i loved this woman like my own mother,things changed when i lost my husband back in 1997 due to a 4-wheeler accident which was her only son.i know she has went through alot from the loss of her son,because if i was in her shoes i don't know if i could handle losing one of my kids,so the problem with her started not long after that,she started calling me and telling me grandparents had rights to their grand children,,which i understand that completely,i've never stopped her from seeing her grand children i'm not that type of person,well after about a year i fell in love with someone else and moved to the state of tennessee,because i knew i needed a change,i have a 17 yr old daughter and a 12yr old son,my daughter is old enough to have a say in the grand parent right thing,,but the grandmother was never concerned about the grand parent rights with my daughter,its my 12yr old son whom she thinks can replace her son that she lost.last year after thanksgiving i receive a letter from the grandmother's lawyer stating i had to let my son visit with her 1-month out of the summer and every other weekend,now you talk about being back-stabbed. this woman told her lawyer a bunch of lies saying i wasn't letting her see my son,,she never calls him or writes to him,and then she has the nerve to say i'm not letting her see her grandson,well as of now my son is visiting his grandmother for 1-month,,this didn't come from her lawyer,this came from my decision....when she went and contacted her lawyer behind me and my son's back,,this not only hurt me it also hurt my son as well,and my son asked her why she did what she did,,the only reply she could come up with is: sometimes you have to do things like that. in my case i don't support what my son's grandmother has done one bit,and i'm still hurt&angry at her for what she has put me and my son through,,,,i'm sorry i'm trying to protect my son from getting hurt,,,,thats why i agree to LB'S post.

 

[EPS421]

Okay...okay....

We have two types of grandparents AND two types of children: loving, sharing ones and meddling, vindictive ones. It is such a shame when a child refuses a grandparent visitation just out of spite or for no good reason. Unfortunately, it seems they can do that and if they do, the grandparent hasn't much of a say exceptto plead with the child's good graces and hope they eventually change their mind. Everyone agrees that it is good that fair-minded parents can decide if a GP is being too controlling and limit visitation but the law seems to fail grandparents when parents arbitrarily abuse their rights.

Just curious, is there any state where GP's do have rights other than in the emergency situations mentioned earlier?

 

[Pretty24]

Please

ok i see the point that mysticaldoll is getting across but the thing with my case is that i can not see how the kids can say well i got a chip on my shoulder because i'm mad at someone else so i don't want you around my kids.

her mother moved to colorado so she was mad and thought well if my mom can't be in my kids life neither is my boyfriends mom, this is what she told my other son, i think it's a bunch of crock, that is no reason to keep my grandkids from me even though i did more for my son's girlfriend and daughter then what her own mother did,


ok with my case also my son's live-in girlfriend is pregnant wiih their 2nd child and moved out of his house today, they are still friends and have worked things out for him to get his baby everyother weekend on one condition (that he does not have any contact with me what so ever) and i have never done anything to her or my grandkid i never once tried to tell them how to raise their kids she is mad because she doesn't have her mother here. Her or my son has no idea how bad i'm hurting but they have seen how it hurt their daughter but she doesn't care she can't, one day i went to them and asked if i could take the baby to my house ( 4 houses down) for awhile and visit with her to give her the birthday present we had for her cause we was not invited to her b-party and she said no that i could bring her the present then had to leave ( i still have the present) when i left the baby cried for me and went to the door cring so hard i turned around and looked as the mother was telling her (the baby) to forget about her she's nobody, my grandbaby is only 1 yr old. So you see thats where parents have no right telling their kids to forget about the gradparents that they love and tellng me to forget about being in the grandkids life because it's not going to happen. i'm not asking to raise them just visit, i'm not the kind of person that can turn love off and foget about it just because of the parents of my grandkids.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Okay...okay....

We have two types of grandparents AND two types of children: loving, sharing ones and meddling, vindictive ones. It is such a shame when a child refuses a grandparent visitation just out of spite or for no good reason. Unfortunately, it seems they can do that and if they do, the grandparent hasn't much of a say exceptto plead with the child's good graces and hope they eventually change their mind. Everyone agrees that it is good that fair-minded parents can decide if a GP is being too controlling and limit visitation but the law seems to fail grandparents when parents arbitrarily abuse their rights.

Just curious, is there any state where GP's do have rights other than in the emergency situations mentioned earlier?

My response:

Good points, EPS.

Your points are the reason that I said the High Court could have, and should have, made the law more fair and evenhanded, rather than lopsided. In such cases, there is the human aspect, and the court glossed over that aspect. There could have been rules made to allow fairness between both sides, and the onus should have been on the parent to demonstrate that the GP relationship was, or could be, detrimental to the "best interests of the child". Sadly, however, the High Court decided to give parents 100% of the decision-making process. The child is, for the most part, the loser in that type of situation.

There are no States that allow GP Rights. The "Troxel" decision, and it's progeny, are rules set down by the U.S. Supreme Court and are, thus, controlling on ALL the States. When the High Court makes a ruling, it affects all of us, no matter what State we live in.

As an example that is familiar to all of us, is the case of "Miranda vs. Arizona" - - from which the law came down concerning arrestee rights : "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney during all questioning, and you have the right to an attorney throughout all proceedings. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you at no cost. Do you understand your rights ? "

That case, like Troxel, affects all of us too. And that's because the U.S. Supreme Court decided that case.

IAAL

 

[craftymom]

While reading through this thread, I've gone round and round thinking of LB's and IAAL's legal points, as well as Grandma B's and Pretty24's thoughts based on (I assume)personal experiences.
What I keep thinking, though, is how sad it is that there is a need for laws to be made because some parents lack basic common sense.

 

[LegalBeagle]

What I keep thinking, though, is how sad it is that there is a need for laws to be made because some parents lack basic common sense.

I totally agree..
No different than the seat belt law though.

 

[AlsoaGrandma]

Grandparents' Rights

I am totally amazed at how incapable some GP are of seeing themselves anywhere near accurately. The perception others have of a person and the self-perception are two totally different presentations. There are grandparents who do not know how to display love, giving presents is not love. When interfering GP are finally removed, they suddenly become the injured party and see themselves as an innocent bystander with adult children who are mean and unfair. Even some grandchildren view this step of removal as an improvement. I agree with LB totally that visiting, enjoying and not trying to run the family nor the adult children in the guise of grandparenthood is the ideal role. Just because my adult kids do not do things MY way, does not mean they do things wrong!! There are a few good GP out there who are being hurt. Not all of the ones on this board fall into that category, I am sure. Some protest too loudeth!!!!! Parents must retain control.

 

[I am Just A Mom]

lost original thread content??

I've been watching posts on this board for some time, and I just have a comment to make. Pretty asked a question, her thread, and she received advice, and now this appears to have turned into a personal issue between GrandmaB and I'm assuming her adult child and someone else who knows them? I thought that sort of thing was looked down on here?

No offense to the helpful legal types who post useful advice here, but it seems to me there are too many like GrandmaB who appear to have at least some knowledge of some legal issues, but pepper it freely with vindictive personal issues and cutting remarks to people who are only seeking advice. Perhaps the purpose of the boards would be better served to keep the advice along the lines of the legal type and find another forum for this kind of thing????? GrandmaB, shame on you for turning Pretty's post into a Q&A about how to ruin your family. I hope your grandchildren DON'T end up with you as your anger couldn't be a very healthy thing for them.

[Edited by I am Just A Mom on 07-15-2001 at 01:31 AM]

 

[Pretty24]

For Alsoagrandma

i myself am not a vindictive grandma and for your response that said

giving presents is buying their love well i think you better reread my letter

i didn't say anything about buying a present just to visit my grandbaby i said ( my husband and myself was not invited to the grandbabies (first) birthday and i had baught a (birthday yes a birthday present for her) and all her mother wanted me to do is give it to her then leave. so you see i don't believe in buying love just for the fact that i taught my own kids that love has no price and it can not be baught so what made you say that? no where in this discussion did it once say that a present was baught just for the hell of it. also if your reread the other ones i said that i have never told my kids how to raise their children all i want is to see my grandbaby spend time with her etc etc i shouldn't have to repeat it again go back and reread please. so i can't get visitation with my grandbaby i think that the law needs to rethink the decision and start listening to some of these noninterfearing grandparents maybe if they change the law that the parents that turn their backs on gps might see the true meaning of love for a gp and the grandchild i taught my kids the meaning but what i see in the mother of my grandbaby she put her love for certain people on hold because her mother moved out of state. she didn't have to turn it off for anyone we are all human and have feelings.and alot of love to give.

 

[Ambr]

Re: Amen!

He doesn't know yet that he'll love his "grands" at least as much as he loves his child.

heck, my mom says that they are more fun and she wishes that she could have had them first.

LOL