HOA take away the space of the closet in my condo

[cuckooc]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

To make a long story short, I need to tell about the background of my condo unit.

I bought a condo from the 1st developer in 2007. The building was originally for apartment rental but the 1st developer bought it and convert it into condo.
The 1st developer went bankruptcy in 2008, and the renovation and remodeling work has stopped. The city stopped the new sales of the condo because there is not enough of HOA reserve fund. As a result, over 2/3 of the condo in the building are unsold and has been emptied for 2 years.

In 2009, the home owner found out the truth that the 1st developer never gave HOA fee as they have promised and they took away the bond money for the remodeling work. So, the HOA went to sue them.

And six months later, an investment bank bought all the remaining unit which is not owned by home owner, and the bank become the HOA member. The number of unit owned by the bank is more than 2/3 of the building, Which means if the HOA need to vote for something, the bank can get over 66% of the vote and can pass anything in favor to them.

In 2010, the bank made a global agreement with the HOA, they promised that they will put 1.8 million for the HOA reserve fund in order to put our building back to the market and they will continue the remodeling work. However, we, the home owner, have to give up the right to sue the 1st developer, the bank will sue the 1st developer and ask for the compensation instead of us. The compensation will go to the bank's pocket only.


The bank are also going to install washer and dryer to the unit that the bank owned. They need to install a new pipe for the laundry and the pipe need to run from the 1st floor to the roof.

The problem is, some of the home owner's units are above or below the bank owned unit. So, as a trade off, the home owner have to let the worker access to their unit and let them install the new pipe in our closet. And All of that are written in the global agreement.


I am one of the home owner, and my unit is on the 4th floor of 4-storie building. The unit below is owned by the bank. I found out that the pipe they are going to install will take half of my closet space. They will build a wall to cover the pipe, and the new wall will become HOA common space. Last friday, I received a letter from the bank saying that the worker need to get into my unit start from next monday.

I have contacted them, asking for the detail of the work, and want to know what they are going to do in my apartment. They insist that they have the right to enter my unit due to the global agreement. No matter what, I have to let them in for them to do the installation of new pipe. So, I question them there will be square footage reduction which is violated with the deed. They replied me that there will be no square footage reduction, there is only less usable space. and if I ask further question, they will bring it to HOA counsel, and I will be charged for $275/hour.

So, Here comes my question. I am the owner of the condo, I own the space from the inside surface of wall finishes and also the partition wall. That means the closet space is owned by me. Why the bank has the right to install a new pipe and build a new wall in my closet, take away my private own space and become HOA common space? The closet is inside my bedroom, that means HOA will own a space inside my bedroom.

The bank insist that Home Owner have a general agreement, but the bank have 66% of vote, so they can pass anything that they want. Is that illegal?
The bank make use of their advantage on the number of vote and pass a global agreement. Can the minority like us say no?

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

To make a long story short, I need to tell about the background of my condo unit.

I bought a condo from the 1st developer in 2007. The building was originally for apartment rental but the 1st developer bought it and convert it into condo.
The 1st developer went bankcruptcy in 2008, and the renovation and remodeling work has stopped. The city stop the sales of our condo because there is not enough of HOA reserve fund.

In 2009, the home owner found out the truth that the 1st developer never gave HOA fee as they have promised and they took away the bond money for the remodeling work. So, the HOA decided to sue them.

And six months later, an investment bank bought all the remaining unit which is not owned by home owner, and the bank become the HOA member. The number of unit owned by the bank is more than 2/3 of the building, Which means if the HOA need to vote for something, the bank can get over 66% of the vote.

In 2010, the bank made a global agreement with the HOA, they promised that they will put 1.8 million for the HOA reserve fund in order to put our building back to the market and they will continue the remodeling work. However, we, the home owner, have to give up the right to sue the 1st developer, the bank will sue the 1st developer and ask for the compensation. The compensation will go to their pocket only.


The bank are also going to install washer and dryer to the unit that the bank owned. They need to install a new pipe for the laundry and the pipe need to run from the 1st floor to the roof.

The problem is, some of the home owner's units are above or below the bank owned unit. So, as a trade off, the home owner have to let the worker access to their unit and let them install the new pipe in our closet. And All of that are written in the global agreement.


I am one the home owner, and my unit is on the 4th floor of 4-storie building. The unit below is owned by the bank. I found out that the pipe they are going to install will take half of my closet space. They will build a wall to cover the pipe, and the new wall will become HOA common space. Last friday, I received a letter from the bank saying that the worker need to get into my unit start from next monday.

I have contacted them, asking for the detail of the work, and want to know what they are going to do in my apartment. They insist that they have the right to enter my unit due to the global agreement. I have to let them in for them to do the installation of new pipe. So, I question them there will be square footage reduction which is violated with the deed. They replied me that there will be no square footage reduction, there is only less usable space. and if I ask further question, they will bring it to HOA counsel, and I will be charged fro $275/hour.

So, Here comes my question. I am the owner of the condo, I own the space from the inside surface of wall finishes and also the partition wall. That means the closet space is owned by me. Why the bank has the right to install a new pipe and build a new wall in my closet and make that become a HOA common space?

The bank insist that we have a general agreement, but the bank have 66% of vote, so they can pass anything that they want. Is that illegal?

**A: demand HOA legal opinion at the HOA's expense.

 

[cuckooc]

sorry for duplicated post, I think I did it accidentally when I click post new thread and needa re-login due to time out.

I have the global agreement saying that they have the right to entry , but I can't see the right the bank can take away the space from me.

The following are extracted from the global agreement.

section 8.3

Association right to retrofit and install common facilities for in-unit laundry connections.

The association and its contractors shall have a limited right of entry in and upon the Exclusive Use Common Areas, and the interiors of all Residential Units (including Bank owned Units) in the affected Buildings, for construction work as necessary to modify plumbing and electrical infrastructure supporting potential future tie-ins of stacked washer and ventless dryer units in Residential Units Hall closets. Such construction and plumbing (including, without limitation, waste, water and vent lines), alterations to the electrical common area infrastructure of the applicable Building(s), coring of slabs within Unit hall closets, penetrations at Building roof, and related work necessary to upgrade Building systems consistent with current City code requirements to obtain final sign off from the City. At the completion of construction in each Unit, the Association shall remove construction debris from the Unit and close any open pipes and vents that are installed in the Unit. In the event of damage to any improvements that is caused by entry or work performed under this Section, the Association will restore, at its sole cost, such damaged improvements to at least the condition they were in immediately prior to the damage. All new plumbing and electrical infrastructure that is installed in the Residential Common Area pursuant to this Section shall be deemed part of the Residential Common Area and maintained by the Association. Nothing in this Section 8.3 shall be construed to impose a duty on the Association to perform such work. However, at the request of Bank, the Association shall have the power to perform such work for the benefit of any Bank owned Units, at the Bank's sole expense.




Can someone tell me that according to the above article, Do the bank have the right to take my closet and make it into HOA Common Area? Does it violate with the deed that I have?

 

[CLJM]

Can someone tell me that according to the above article, Do the bank have the right to take my closet and make it into HOA Common Area? Does it violate with the deed that I have?

HomeGuru gave you a very presise answer-----" demand HOA legal opinion at the HOA's expense".

 

[cuckooc]

I want to tell everyone that, as a home owner, I have done nothing wrong, I paid all the HOA fee on time, haven't done anything violated with CC&R. And now, the HOA (bank is the majority) want to get my private own space in my residential unit, and make them into a HOA Common area.

I just talked to the Chairman of our HOA, he said that he doesn't know anything about that the construction work (washer/dryer unit installation) is in the Global agreement.

 

[Zigner]

I want to tell everyone that, as a home owner, I have done nothing wrong, I paid all the HOA fee on time, haven't done anything violated with CC&R. And now, the HOA (bank is the majority) want to get my private own space in my residential unit, and make them into a HOA Common area.

I just talked to the Chairman of our HOA, he said that he doesn't know anything about that the construction work (washer/dryer unit installation) is in the Global agreement.

So, what happened when you demanded the HOA legal opinion at HOA expense?

 

[cuckooc]

The chairman said that we should contact the HOA manager and get the answer from her, so I went to the HOA office and tried to reach her, but she is always not in the office. (I have visited her office several times, and she did promised that she will attend the meeting the held between the contractor and me, but she didn't show up.) So , I sent an email to ask her about it and waiting for her reply.

By the mean time, the HOA has already sent the workers and try to get in. They try to explain they have the right to do their construction, and I asked them do you know why do you have the power to take away the space that I own? The workers cannot answer them. I asked them is there another way to install the pipe so it won't take my private own space ? The workers says no, and it's not gonna happen. No matter what, they need to install the pipe in the way that they want. I think that it's just a matter of cost, there should be some other way to work around, but they just don't want to spend more and do more work.

I understand that the workers are doing their work, it's just their duty. But it really gets into my nerve that they wake me up 8:00 in the morning and they wanted to get inside my unit. It's my unfortunate that it happened to me and not happened to them.

I have requested the HOA to give us sometime to figure out what we can do and what they can do. I am still waiting for their reply. But I could see that they are trying everything to force us to let them in as soon as possible. I think they will knock my door everyday from now on.

I think I have the right to protect my property, but the HOA will probably think me as trouble maker.

 

[cuckooc]

I just have another question.

I have the deed and it clearly said that the closet is my private own space. I own it through buying it. So do HOA havel any power to override what it has been said in the deed?

 

[CLJM]

I just have another question.

I have the deed and it clearly said that the closet is my private own space. I own it through buying it. So do HOA havel any power to override what it has been said in the deed?

That is also precisely why you need a legal opinion on your situation. Please do so immediately----that is your remedy of dealing with a HOA that has basically ignored your quest for information.

 

[cuckooc]

That is also precisely why you need a legal opinion on your situation. Please do so immediately----that is your remedy of dealing with a HOA that has basically ignored your quest for information.

I am afraid that the HOA will call their own attorney and explain the situation to me. That HOA attorney is hired by the bank, he is helping the bank to sue the 1st developer. Can I believe what he says? I doubt that he would say something in favor to the bank (HOA)...

 

[cuckooc]

The HOA manager has replied me. saying that I am referring the correction section. (section 8.3 that I posted above) She also mentioned that it is not global agreement, it is actually CC&Rs.

She said that by CC&Rs, HOA has the right to install the pipe in my unit. She said that "changing private own space into HOA common area" never exist.

She told me that the new pipe will become part of HOA common area for exclusive use for my unit. There is no square footage reduction. The new pipe is the same case as the patio, which is also an Exclusive USE Common Area.

So, now I have questons.

1. I have no use of that pipe, and I cannot use that pipe. The pipe will be covered by a new wall. And that area is not accessible. Why is that a Exclusive use common area for my unit?

2. The deed that I have has already excluded the patio and all the exclusive use common area. And now they take my closet and change it to exclusive common area. Why does she say that there is no square footage reduction?

 

[cuckooc]

I could see what the HOA manager said is not correct.

She told me that the new pipe and the new wall covered around it are Exclusive Use Common Area. And she claims that it is according to section 8.3

But section 8.3 called that new pipe and new wall as Residential Common Area.

Exclusive use Common Area and Residential common area are totally different things.

Will the HOA manager be held the responsibility for providing me misleading information?

The HOA manager is hired by the bank too, I think that she is speaking in favor to her employer.

 

[ecmst12]

Hire your own lawyer.

 

[CLJM]

I am afraid that the HOA will call their own attorney and explain the situation to me. That HOA attorney is hired by the bank, he is helping the bank to sue the 1st developer. Can I believe what he says? I doubt that he would say something in favor to the bank (HOA)...

If you are dissatisfied with what the HOA is telling you and questions remain, your remedy is to seek out your own legal representation of the situation---someone who looks at the issue from your perspective, is able to explain the documentaion to you, and give you a legal opinion you can rely on.

 

[cuckooc]

I am afraid that my HOA may have seen my post here, haha, coz it's so easy to find out this topic by search engine now.

I have talked with more than 10 home owners last night.
None of them knows about that they are gonna being forced to lose their closet space.

One of the neighbor has been forced to let the HOA take their closet space and the pipe has already installed into his unit. He has all the question mark in his head when the HOA talked to him, but he just let the workers in. Because his wife is the home owner and she is always out of country. The husband knows nothing about the HOA project and the HOA just told him they have the right to take his space.
Now, He is very upset that his closet has been messed up and his wife was mad when she returned home.

All the other Home owner who heard about this story are very angry. And we wanna stop this happening again.