HOA's definition of Christmas

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE ARC

All Christmas lights must be taken down by January 7th.

Raised in the Eastern Orthodox religion, guess what day STARTS Christmas? January 7th, and it continues to the 19th for Epiphany.

The Armenian Apostolic Church observes Christmas on January 6, while certain old rite or old style Eastern Orthodox Churches celebrate Christmas on January 7, the date on the Gregorian calendar which corresponds to 25 December on the Julian Calendar.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof... --US Const., Amend. 1

When I called the property manager to complain, she said that the board would be "lenient" in our case. The rule flat out says we are in VIOLATION. She tried telling me that it takes 75% of the community to change a rule. I pointed out to her that THIS rule is NOT in the CR&R, but rather an arbitrary rule made up by the Board of Idiots along the way (didn't quite use that term). I suggest that it become an agenda item for the next board meeting.

Am I correct that the way the rule stands right now, it is in a religious discrimination item?

 

[colourfastt]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida




Raised in the Eastern Orthodox religion, guess what day STARTS Christmas? January 7th, and it continues to the 19th for Epiphany.





When I called the property manager to complain, she said that the board would be "lenient" in our case. The rule flat out says we are in VIOLATION. She tried telling me that it takes 75% of the community to change a rule. I pointed out to her that THIS rule is NOT in the CR&R, but rather an arbitrary rule made up by the Board of Idiots along the way (didn't quite use that term). I suggest that it become an agenda item for the next board meeting.

Am I correct that the way the rule stands right now, it is in a religious discrimination item?

So the Board changes the name to "holiday lights" and you STILL have to take them down by 7 Jan.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

That is true if they were to do that. I told her that I could put up Valentine decorations up in February and leave 'em up all year and there is NOTHING anyone could do about it.

I believe the INTENT was to limit the number of months the decorations are up. I told her that they should reconsider a time frame around ALL the holidays.

I told her that the intentions is NOT to sue, but if they didn't change it we just might have to change our minds about it

The reason that I call them the Board of Idiots is that we have already had a number of suits due to their stupid decisions and would rather avoid a future one in this regard.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

So the Board changes the name to "holiday lights" and you STILL have to take them down by 7 Jan.

With that way of thinking, I could put up lights for Valentine's Day, St. Patty's Day, Memorial Day, Flag Day, Thanksgiving, etc and ONLY have to take 'em down by 1/7.

STUPID.

 

[justalayman]

then just go back to this:

All Christmas lights must be taken down by January 7th.

Raised in the Eastern Orthodox religion, guess what day STARTS Christmas?

So?

When you celebrate the holiday is irrelevant. The simple rule is that all Christmas lights must be taken down by Jan 7th.

Am I correct that the way the rule stands right now, it is in a religious discrimination item?

No. You are allowed to display Christmas lights just like everybody else. It's just that yours have to be removed by the 7th just like anybody else's.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I would disagree. Others are allowed to celebrate THEIR holiday with THEIR lights up. I'm cannot.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Or, to be totally bratty, I could put them up tomorrow and let them know that I'll take it down on 1/7/2012.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Tread carefully - they can just as easily say "no holiday/xmas/arbor day lights whatsoever" and it's perfectly legal. (Unless, as you seem to imply, your HOA is run by Congress).

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

oh, I have NO problem if they want to ban EVERY decoration up. THAT is perfectly legal. It's the selective enforcement that I have a problem with. They have been doing LOTS of selective enforcement lately. Personally, I think I'll wait till tomorrow to put up the decorations. I'll take pictures of it today and then put them up tomorrow. Then I'll wait and see what they do.

The rule is very specific:
All Christmas lights must be taken down by January 7th. If they are put in AFTER that date, then, I can wait to take them down NEXT January 7th. If they try to say that I can't, then, technically anyone who puts them up in November and December (which is AFTER 1/7) would be in violation.

I was on the rules committee for a while and could find EVERY loophole that they had.

 

[csi7]

Best wishes with your endeavor!
I have a neighbor who did just that.
Took the Christmas lights down one day for HOA.
The day after the lights had to come down, he had a huge "lighting" party and the lights went on every night for a little while for the entire year. As the year went on, the other neighbors joined in with different lighting.
The rule was removed the following year.
We live one house over from the HOA, and only have the initial restrictive covenants to deal with, so it makes the local paper when something like this happens.

 

[Zigner]

I would suggest a time limit...such as "Decorative/holiday lights may only be in in place for a maximum of X weeks per calendar year".

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Actually, I won't CALL it my Christmas lights! Problem solved. I'll call them my JANUARY lights

http://www.holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/january.htm

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I would suggest a time limit...such as "Decorative/holiday lights may only be in in place for a maximum of X weeks per calendar year".

I agree - THAT was the point I was trying to make with the property manager.

 

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by Zigner
I would suggest a time limit...such as "Decorative/holiday lights may only be in in place for a maximum of X weeks per calendar year".

I agree - THAT was the point I was trying to make with the property manager.

No, your point is you aren't happy with the rules or those that enforce the rules. That is evident because of this: "oh, I have NO problem if they want to ban EVERY decoration up."

It's not that you want to put up lights. It's that you simply are not happy with the rules in general. If you are going to fight for something, at least fight for something that actually means something to you. This obviously is not the reason here.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

No, it really boils down to SELECTIVE enforcement. Either allow ALL who celebrate Christmas AND choose to have outside lights celebrate in THEIR timeframe, or allow NO one to have lights up. THAT is the issue that I have. I can get around their silly rules, but I should NOT have to. If those how follow Julian calendar START their holiday on 1/7, then THAT should also be honored.

Yes, I have a number of issues with the HOA, along with quite a few others. They have found themselves embroiled in a number of lawsuits in which the HOA lost, thus costing ALL members $$.

They did NOT state HOLIDAY lights. They state CHRISTMAS. Therefore, they could find themselves (thinking board members) in ANOTHER lawsuit. I just want them to fix it to AVOID the issue.