How to fight a rear facing radar speeding ticket in NY?

[fw_man]

How to fight a rear facing laser speeding ticket in NY?

Hi, I was clocked going 71 in 50 zone by a cop parked on the right side of the road facing in the same direction as traffic. He started moving immediately after I passed him. This is a 3 lane highway in each direction and I was traveling in the rightmost lane. I am a NJ driver, and 'only' 2pts would transfer. But 21 mph or over speed limit is a 6pts offense $200 in NY + "Driver Responsibility Assessment" that apparently costs $300. Violation section 1180D.

My question: How accurate is a rear facing laser? The officer definitely was not pointing any handheld device at me. If I understand correctly, laser has a very narrow beam and to get proper measurement, must be aimed at a reflecting surface such as my headlight. If above is correct, how can a rear facing radar be properly aimed to get an accurate measurement? Any other info/tips/suggestions are most welcome.

TIA

 

[HighwayMan]

Well, is it radar or laser (i.e. lidar)??

 

[fw_man]

Well, is it radar or laser (i.e. lidar)??

It was a laser. I asked and officer replies "It was a laser sir". The title of the thread is not correct.

 

[HighwayMan]

The officer could have told you anything - that doesn't mean it was true or accurate.

If the officer's car was parallel to traffic flow then I don't see how he could have pointed the lidar behind him.

Usually when lidar speed enforcement is done the police car is parked perpendicular to the flow of traffic.

 

[HighwayMan]

...must be aimed at a reflecting surface such as my headlight.

Your entire car is a reflecting surface.

 

[fw_man]

The officer could have told you anything - that doesn't mean it was true or accurate.

If the officer's car was parallel to traffic flow then I don't see how he could have pointed the lidar behind him.

Usually when lidar speed enforcement is done the police car is parked perpendicular to the flow of traffic.

Thank you HighwayMan for replying. From your post, could I conclude that there is no such thing as a fixed mounted rear view lidar?

If that's the case, could he have illuminated me just as I passed him? There was definitely no device in his hands outside of his car as I was passing him. I watched in rear view mirror. Could this be done from inside his car? Windshield not a problem?

Thank you all again for shared expertise.

 

[HighwayMan]

Thank you HighwayMan for replying. From your post, could I conclude that there is no such thing as a fixed mounted rear view lidar?

No there is not. It is a hand-held unit which must be aimed just like a pistol.

If that's the case, could he have illuminated me just as I passed him?

Of course he could.

There was definitely no device in his hands outside of his car as I was passing him.

Why would his hands have to be outside the car?

Could this be done from inside his car? Windshield not a problem?

Yes, from inside the car, of course.

The vehicle glass, especially the windshield, could be a problem. Are you saying all of his windows were closed?

It's hard to believe that you would or could be that observant as you were passing him at high speed.

 

[fw_man]

No there is not. It is a hand-held unit which must be aimed just like a pistol.



Of course he could.



Why would his hands have to be outside the car?



Yes, from inside the car, of course.

The vehicle glass, especially the windshield, could be a problem. Are you saying all of his windows were closed?

It's hard to believe that you would or could be that observant as you were passing him at high speed.

I can not be absolutely sure his side window was closed. I believe so.
I can not be absolutely sure he did not stick out his lidar immediately after I passed him and before I could observe him in my rear view mirror.
But as soon as he appeared in my rear view mirror, he did not do anything but start driving. So it is a matter of 2-3 seconds that he had to clock me. Sounds improbable to me.

I want to fight the ticket. Probably need to do "discovery". Any guidance on doing that is appreciated. Never did that before.

Thanks again.

 

[Zigner]

...a matter of 2-3 seconds that he had to clock me. Sounds improbable to me.

You DO understand that light travels ~186,000 miles per second, right?

 

[fw_man]

You DO understand that light travels ~186,000 miles per second, right?

Of course I do. But his hands and eyes don't. He would need to stick the gun out, aim it, maybe press something, observe the result, put the gun back, start driving.
These actions IMHO would take longer than 3 seconds.

 

[FlyingRon]

Any part of the car can be used. The more reflective parts generate a better signature (the lights and even the front plate in most places) but anything can actually work. Yes, just as you can see through the windows, LIDAR works through the windows. The speed of light is very fast, but it actually has to make several measurements to determine speed with accuracy, still it's way less than three seconds. Typical units send out pulses 1000 times a second and it takes 1/5 of a second to lock up on an accurate reading.

 

[HighwayMan]

I want to fight the ticket. Probably need to do "discovery".

Then you're out of luck - there is no such thing as discovery for traffic infractions in New York State.

You CAN request a supporting deposition, but even that does not apply in New York City, if that happens to be where you were.

I have used lidar through side window glass, just to test it out, and there seemed to be no issues. I never used it that way in practice in order to avoid hassles in court.

Windshields, I am guessing because they are laminated, cause problems for lidar. I doubt very much that the set was aimed through the windshield in your case though.

 

[HighwayMan]

These actions IMHO would take longer than 3 seconds.

But an independent speed estimation does not. Even if the lidar (if that's what it really was) is ignored you still have to contend with that.

 

[Zigner]

Of course I do. But his hands and eyes don't. He would need to stick the gun out, aim it, maybe press something, observe the result, put the gun back, start driving.
These actions IMHO would take longer than 3 seconds.

Pointing the device and pressing the button will take less than 3 seconds. Observing the result, etc. isn't part of the time required to get a reading.

 

[HighwayMan]

Pointing the device and pressing the button will take less than 3 seconds.

Especially when it's in a ready position to begin with and the user already has his finger on the trigger.