I didnt put the lock on the thread

[LittleLisa]

What is the name of your state? De - I did not put the lock on that thread. I left for the beach Fri morning, and came home last night, well, anyway, for those of you that have put your comments in on my last thread.

As I had mentioned earlier, we (me and my husband) had no intentions of sueing him for $, but after talking to my medmal, she's the one along with the other state people involved, it was all their suggestions to sue him, for multiple reasons, inproper prescribing (and NO I NEVER did forge any prescriptions), didnt have to. Like I said he knew exactly what he was doing, harrassment, sexual misconduct, medical misconduct, etc..there are more.

The DUI arrest is what saved my life, and it took a ride in an ambulance being told going into liver failure, and one of the EMT's sitting next to me, on the phone w/hospital, "potential transplant coming in", for me. that was it, that was the wake up call i needed.

I'm doing great in my recovery, I have been clean since 10/12/04. Once the DUI case got settled, found out what I need to do, and had answers to questions that I had to pursue, after all that, I finally felt like "okay, this is done, do what you have to do, and move on with your life, stop dwelling on "what could have happened", i felt great. for about 1 day. then the whole state thing came into the picture.

Then, it sort of re-opened a chapter in my book i was trying to put behind me (not the recovery) the whole doctor situation. And now knowing whats ahead, yes im scared, not that i have anytihng to hide anymore, but knowing that I will actually see him is the worst part. Because part of me feels that when I did ever see him, I would want to just punch him right in the face, (No im not a fighter, Im a 35 year old mother of 2), but just the disgust i have for him, not just for the prescribing, addiction, hospitals, family, then, throw into the picture the whole fraud issue, so not only did he try to take advantage of me, he took advantage of my insurance. Some are telling me he's prob a addict himself.

Just remember I live in a very small state, Ive grown up in DE, i dont know if any of you are familiar with the Tom Capano story, but if you are, Ive been advised this could get as much attention as that case did. Ive been told my by my family that i worry to much, but thats just the way I am.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

You may find of interest some of these articles adressing these issues in various journals, most apply to psychotherapy, but the greater issues apply to medical professionals as a whole. The same root causes lead to the boundary violations ranging from negligent perscribing to sexual misconduct

Here is one from AU but references to USA journals
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/181_07_041004/gal10557_fm.html
and
http://jppr.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/8/4/284
... for Therapist-Patient Sexual Misconduct, MATA Journal 42 (July, 1995). ... The Prevention of Therapist Sexual Contact: Avoid the Slippery Slope, ...
http://members.tripod.com/~PKSutherland/
http://www.misbruikdoorhulpverleners.nl/literatuur4.html
The concept of appropriate professional boundaries in psychiatric ...
... psychotherapist sexual misconduct: avoiding the slippery slope. American Journal of Psychotherapy 1992; 46:544–555. ...
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/anp/2001/00000035/00000005/art00946

Keep strong, it will get better.

 

[panzertanker]

Obviously Im dealt with another "know it all", first of all you obviously know nothing about addiction, yes i can admit i was an addict, and yes i did call for some meds, but he also called me (quite frequently to see if I needed any more), i DID pick up scripts (only the ones that he could not call in to phamacy), and when i would get there he would bascially sit there w/his script pad and said i'll give you this, and that,,oh and how many do you want? is 100 enough. Or he would say "Hey i will put them in the mail for you". I did NOT take the job to be closer to be closer to him to get the drugs, you are not reading the whole picture here, your just passing judgement on me. so whatever, you DONT know everything, and let me just tell you this: ive been advised by the AG's office, Fraud investigator, and one other division of my State to SUE him. my attorney even before seeing everything down on paper, was astonished, so like i said I had no intentions to sue him, just wanted to see him shut down, but the more people (and Im pretty sure the State would not tell me to sue someone if they did not think I should), he did put me through hell, he was the one who turned me into an addict, so just to piss you off even more...Ive also been advised that I could possibly get 1/2 - 1 million because of the EVIDENCE.....ive been through the judegements on here, the finger pointing, the name calling, but most of these people have actually made me realize other things about my addiction and whom I thank now, becuase certain members have made me see things differently. So do a little more reading about peoples problems instead of just picking out their negatives...unless your a doctor who practices legally and who also has not killed a woman under the same circumstances, keep your judements to yourself and dont bother me with the name calling, cuz its the people like you on here that make me sick!!

I am not a "know it all", I happen to Practice in Pain Management!

So you see, Little Lisa, this is an area of which I have much expertise...


You state you do not want to sue.
You state that others want you to sue (AG, etc).
You are now contemplating suing......


You state "he made me an addict".
You freely admit you took those prescriptions and filled them and TOOK them.


Do you take ANY responsibility for your actions?????

If you read my first response to you, I told you to cooperate with the investigation and get this medical menace out of practice.

Unless there is something you have not told me, I guess the crack addicts should be suing the crack dealers for "making me addicted" when they smoke crack of their own free will....Do you understand my frustration at your logic?
No one MADE you take those pills.
He obviously made it easier for you to have access to them.
He apparently had poor record keeping.
He does not belong in practice (if all you say is true).
Help get him out of practice by testifying against him.
But as for YOU deserving some money....

It takes TWO to Tango.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I am not a "know it all", I happen to Practice in Pain Management!

So you see, Little Lisa, this is an area of which I have much expertise...


You state you do not want to sue.
You state that others want you to sue (AG, etc).
You are now contemplating suing......


You state "he made me an addict".
You freely admit you took those prescriptions and filled them and TOOK them.


Do you take ANY responsibility for your actions?????

If you read my first response to you, I told you to cooperate with the investigation and get this medical menace out of practice.

Unless there is something you have not told me, I guess the crack addicts should be suing the crack dealers for "making me addicted" when they smoke crack of their own free will....Do you understand my frustration at your logic?
No one MADE you take those pills.
He obviously made it easier for you to have access to them.
He apparently had poor record keeping.
He does not belong in practice (if all you say is true).
Help get him out of practice by testifying against him.
But as for YOU deserving some money....

It takes TWO to Tango.

I have had off line communication with Lisa and there is reason to sue plus she wasn't doctor shopping, she had seen this doctor since she was a child, she trusted him. I think if the AG office who has access to the eivdence encourages her to sue based on the evidence, there is cause. but she will have to get used to answering this question, over and over agan until she is sick of it all.

 

[kathrynne]

Could I sue Juan Valdez? I've been addicted to coffee for decades now, after all, and the withdrawal's a killer!

 

[panzertanker]

I have had off line communication with Lisa and there is reason to sue plus she wasn't doctor shopping, she had seen this doctor since she was a child, she trusted him. I think if the AG office who has access to the eivdence encourages her to sue based on the evidence, there is cause. but she will have to get used to answering this question, over and over agan until she is sick of it all.

I do not disagree with that at all...

Lisa needs to get thick skin QUICK!
I am asking and posing questions that will become more invasive and more hurtful; intentionally or not.
Lisa, You need to understand that if you were truly wronged, you need to do something about it.
Understand also, that I am asking and pointing out flaws in your "defense".

"He got me addicted" just won't cut it. As I said, it takes two to tango.
I do not know the intimate details of your case, neither do I want to.
I am merely saying things that you will hear repeatedly.
Harshly.
Hurtfully.

At the very least, continue to cooperate and make sure this guy NEVER can do this again to another....

As for your personal situation....Good luck.
Keep us posted.

 

[panzertanker]

I think if the AG office who has access to the eivdence encourages her to sue based on the evidence, there is cause.

The only concern I have about that is that when they do not have enough evidence to prosecute, I have seen and heard AG's encourage suit to bring to light more evidence/witnesses. The burden of proof in a civil matter is greatly reduced over a criminal procedure....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The only concern I have about that is that when they do not have enough evidence to prosecute, I have seen and heard AG's encourage suit to bring to light more evidence/witnesses. The burden of proof in a civil matter is greatly reduced over a criminal procedure....

You had me worried there for a while, yes I know she will have to have better answers and get used to being made to look responsible, but it is not our place to influence her, only support her in doing the right thing. She came here with quesitons about custody, not looking to file a lawsuit. I suggested that and subsequently the AG's office suggested the same, she had no idea that she had grounds, most victims of boundary violations don't. SInce she worked for him, it is possible she knows, there are always more, but she may not have worked long enough to know. When she files suit others will come forward. There are criminal, civil, administrative and federal/fda issues all with different requirements for proof. She will need the support of family and friends, he daughter will need to know sooner rather than later.

BTW check your PM's

 

[LittleLisa]

want to ask you a question

I am not a "know it all", I happen to Practice in Pain Management!

So you see, Little Lisa, this is an area of which I have much expertise...


You state you do not want to sue.
You state that others want you to sue (AG, etc).
You are now contemplating suing......


You state "he made me an addict".
You freely admit you took those prescriptions and filled them and TOOK them.


Do you take ANY responsibility for your actions?????

If you read my first response to you, I told you to cooperate with the investigation and get this medical menace out of practice.

Unless there is something you have not told me, I guess the crack addicts should be suing the crack dealers for "making me addicted" when they smoke crack of their own free will....Do you understand my frustration at your logic?
No one MADE you take those pills.
He obviously made it easier for you to have access to them.
He apparently had poor record keeping.
He does not belong in practice (if all you say is true).
Help get him out of practice by testifying against him.
But as for YOU deserving some money....

It takes TWO to Tango.

First i would like to know when you say you "practice" in pain mangement, what is that?, are you a doc? nurse?, second, Yes I do take some responsibility for my actions and take a whole lot for his actions as well.

Now, let me ask you this? lets say you are a doc, ive been your patient since I was 13, (im now 35), and i sustained a back injury in Jan 03, and you prescribed me Ty#4, and Percocet, and Vicodin, 100 pills, in Jan, for the rest of that year you wrote me out 101 scripts for all pain meds, you offered them, you called me to see if i was out of anything, any office visits (even coming in for strep throat), you suggest to keep on the pain meds, would you say by that point, I could be an addict?

Well, lets then take 2004, early in the year your writing me out scripts averaging about 18/month, now im not asking you for these pills, but i know i need them, because since 2003 ive found out if i dont take these pills, i feel like hell, and start withdrawling, then you decide to offer me Oxycontin over that summer (Along with the percocet, etc..) Ok. now am i an addict?

Yes i am, and why? cuz you prescribed all these pills to me and its like offering candy to a child, am i going to say no? i dont think so, cuz i know what i feel like if i dont take them, would you prescribe (knowing that you know have an addict as your patient), more Oxycontin, lets say 80 mg?, 20mg, 40mg, and im not asking you for these, you are offering them, and saying come by and pick it up whenever you get ready, or I can mail them to you?

Then your going to offer me a job as your manager because you say your not getting paid by the insurance companies, yes i have alot of background in billing, (thats what i did before I started staying home w/my son), so i come to work for you, well you stop in my office every hour, just to say hi, yes ive confided in you about certain problems in my life and youve told me some of yours, but your like a "dad" figure to me along with someone i know that will keep me addicited.

Well then you decided to tell me one day that youve been in love w/me for a long time, and you make some sexual advances towards me (which I decline and am stunned that you would even think of that) youve known me since i was little, I turn you down 3 times. But I know that i have to quit because of this situation youve just created. I am stunned that youve attempted this towards me.

Then I find out, youve kept no records of the drugs you were prescribing me in my chart (thats in your office, not out front w/everyone else) since spring of 04.

I hope you see where im coming from, yes i could continue to write the outcome, but im sure you have a knowledge of it from this thread anyway. Would you put any blame on yourself or totally blame me?

 

[LittleLisa]

running out of titles

Okay well hopefully by now those of you that are helping me and those of you who are just being judgemental, (senior, thanks for those sites, i read them very carefully), just for everyone to know my intentions for this site was not even to get into this much detail, but yes their is sexual misconduct as well, as everything else. I just did not want to put this whole thing on here because of certain reasons, one of which is my state being so small, and I dont think it would take an Eienstein to figure out this person. So im trying to provide as much info as i can without spitting out names. my only reply to those who think this is entirely my fault, i dont belive it is, and in my recovery, i know now it is not. The 12th of this month, i will be clean for 8 months. and will continue to be clean till the day im put in the grave (cuz i was just about there at one point).

 

[panzertanker]

First i would like to know when you say you "practice" in pain mangement, what is that?, are you a doc? nurse?, second, Yes I do take some responsibility for my actions and take a whole lot for his actions as well.

Now, let me ask you this? lets say you are a doc, ive been your patient since I was 13, (im now 35), and i sustained a back injury in Jan 03, and you prescribed me Ty#4, and Percocet, and Vicodin, 100 pills, in Jan, for the rest of that year you wrote me out 101 scripts for all pain meds, you offered them, you called me to see if i was out of anything, any office visits (even coming in for strep throat), you suggest to keep on the pain meds, would you say by that point, I could be an addict?

Well, lets then take 2004, early in the year your writing me out scripts averaging about 18/month, now im not asking you for these pills, but i know i need them, because since 2003 ive found out if i dont take these pills, i feel like hell, and start withdrawling, then you decide to offer me Oxycontin over that summer (Along with the percocet, etc..) Ok. now am i an addict?

Yes i am, and why? cuz you prescribed all these pills to me and its like offering candy to a child, am i going to say no? i dont think so, cuz i know what i feel like if i dont take them, would you prescribe (knowing that you know have an addict as your patient), more Oxycontin, lets say 80 mg?, 20mg, 40mg, and im not asking you for these, you are offering them, and saying come by and pick it up whenever you get ready, or I can mail them to you?

Then your going to offer me a job as your manager because you say your not getting paid by the insurance companies, yes i have alot of background in billing, (thats what i did before I started staying home w/my son), so i come to work for you, well you stop in my office every hour, just to say hi, yes ive confided in you about certain problems in my life and youve told me some of yours, but your like a "dad" figure to me along with someone i know that will keep me addicited.

Well then you decided to tell me one day that youve been in love w/me for a long time, and you make some sexual advances towards me (which I decline and am stunned that you would even think of that) youve known me since i was little, I turn you down 3 times. But I know that i have to quit because of this situation youve just created. I am stunned that youve attempted this towards me.

Then I find out, youve kept no records of the drugs you were prescribing me in my chart (thats in your office, not out front w/everyone else) since spring of 04.

I hope you see where im coming from, yes i could continue to write the outcome, but im sure you have a knowledge of it from this thread anyway. Would you put any blame on yourself or totally blame me?

Read my posts to you.
I state you need to take responsibility for YOUR actions: Taking the drugs.

I am a Nurse Practitioner.

Would I blame you for the situation? No, not entirely.
As I have said before, it takes two to tango. You have culpability in the situation.
You need to be prepared. My questions may offend you, but they WILL get more personal and direct.

Has the AG filed charges against this doc?

I have no knowledge of the entire story. I know you make statements here, and I have said REPEATEDLY that if it is true you MUST make sure he does not have the opportunity to do this to someone else.

The sexual misconduct is deplorable, but you have to get some thick skin quick if you plan on suing this guy. Your life will be laid open. I am not discouraging you, rather, I am trying to bolster you for the oncoming battle you will have.

along with someone i know that will keep me addicited.

You see, you had knowledge you were addicted yet you took the job to "be closer to your supplier" as I stated earlier. You have to be prepared to answer these types of questions.

Keep us informed.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

You will have a better idea what you are in for after you read those links.

Panzertanker is right, you will have to have a very think skin and right now you are still very fragile, if talking to the fraud investigator freaks you out. You are going to have to be strong and understand the game the defense will be playing to distract from their clients responsibility. Not only that, but you know you are not the only one.

You will be personally attacked on every level, but remember, that while you both have responsibility, he has more, but these are issues open for debate and argument by attorneys. No matter how many times he is found guilty or actions are taken, there will be a number of people who will believe you were at fault for ruining a wonderful man's reputation. And for those who will tell you that it was a bad job that someone had to do it, you will still be seen as responsible for betrayal, even though it is his fault. You will have to be strong and not take it personally, better learn that here. And with all the evidence, he will only be prosecuted on a small fraction, enough to be effective. I know of a case with over 123 causes of action, and the state only prosecuted 1, the other were brought in as evidence but the case would have been unmanagable otherwise.

You need the support of your entire family and friends.

Hang in there.

 

[NayeBomb]

Pantaker- I mean no disrespect but I’m sure you’ve come across patients who have unwittingly become addicted to narcotics, since you practice in pain management. I’m sure you also understand that when a doctor isn’t paying close attention to what is being prescribed; things can get out of control rather quickly. The patient builds up a tolerance and therefore needs more and more. Most pain management facilities request the patient bring in their scripts to be counted before prescribing more narcotics. They have safety guards for this very reason.

These drugs are to be controlled; not prescribed haphazardly. When the doctor has a lenient attitude towards these drugs the patient mirrors that same attitude. The bottom line here is that a doctor has an obligation to his patient to educate and not cause harm. This doctor was way out of line ethically and medically. He fell well below the standards of care. From what we’re told he committed insurance fraud, had inappropriate intentions…must I go on? He must be held accountable for his actions. Lisa is going to have to get her self “straight” or she’s not going to hold up in court. So, I’m sure she’s holding herself accountable for her own actions. Like Rmet says she’s seeking answers and some support.

I've gotta say something else here...I know what Lisa is going to face (I’ve been there, Conrad-Hutsell v. Colturi-Ohio) and it is going to be tough, but making sarcastic remarks or even intensive comments is just inappropriate and ignorant. These drugs can destroy lives every bit as much as “illegal street drugs”. They kill;they destroy families, marriages, and much more. They make good people make poor decisions. I'm not saying the pills grew legs and crawled into her mouth, I'm saying drugs change the chemical make up of the brain. It's not a joking matter (ie: coffee comment).


Sorry for the tangent!

 

[LittleLisa]

Thanks for the help Naye

I have definitely learned by now to be offensive and defensive in this forum. I appreciate all of you that have helped (esp Rx and Naye and senior), And AGAIN yes i do take responsibility for my actions, but one thing i want to say is that I did NOT take the job from him to be closer to the drugs, how much closer did it get me actually?? None, why?? because they were so easily obtainable from him anyway, i did not need to work to be closer to his handouts. I took the job because of: I am a homemaker, i stay home w/my 4-1/2 year old, I did not NEED the $ even, I took it because it was an opportunity to get back into the work field and yes i was in medical and the dental field before I stopped working.

THe reason I stopped working was because in 2002 my grandfather died of cancer and I had him live with us for 7 months to take care of him, and was working F/T, taking care of house, kids, husband. And that was one of the hardest things ive ever gone thru. Yes even harder then this whole situation. This man was my idol. he was the world to me (I even called him dad since my dad died in 92).

But anyway, after that, we decided that it was a good idea to become a stay at home mom. And its great, I did not get this chance w/my daughter. So believe me, my son has also become a sort of backbone for me as well, he may not understand anything, but trust me he tends to keep me very busy.

Yesterday was my orientation to the program the state required me to have, i had a brief meeting with my counselor, she is wonderful, so thats where that is.

To sum this all up: Yes, my Medmal attorney is anxious to get this started, and this is what I have as a civil/criminal case: medical malpractice, unethical conduct, sexual harrassment, unethical prescribing, fraud, sexual misconduct, professional misconduct, I dont have my file right in front of me right now, but there are a few more. Now what state has; medical fraud, recordkeeping, licensing, and just yesterday I recvd a call from the cop who arrested me??, I actually thanked him for saving my life, he was called by the AG's office, make a convo short, theyve asked him to be involved!. He called me, asked me how i was doing? we had a great convo, and now he knows whats all going on, he said he is definitly willing to do whatever he has to and is completely on my side. But all in all it was him that saved me from killing myself, and anyone else on the road that day and like i said, I thanked him for saving my life. He said in 8 years, he's never gotten a Thank you.

 

[panzertanker]

Pantaker- I mean no disrespect but I’m sure you’ve come across patients who have unwittingly become addicted to narcotics, since you practice in pain management. I’m sure you also understand that when a doctor isn’t paying close attention to what is being prescribed; things can get out of control rather quickly. The patient builds up a tolerance and therefore needs more and more. Most pain management facilities request the patient bring in their scripts to be counted before prescribing more narcotics. They have safety guards for this very reason.

Hence the reason i told Lisa to make sure this "medical menace" does not do this to anyone else...

These drugs are to be controlled; not prescribed haphazardly. When the doctor has a lenient attitude towards these drugs the patient mirrors that same attitude. The bottom line here is that a doctor has an obligation to his patient to educate and not cause harm.

True, but the patient has a responsibility to be ACTIVE in their care as well. This is one of the reasons I have pointed out the things that I have to Lisa...

This doctor was way out of line ethically and medically. He fell well below the standards of care. From what we’re told he committed insurance fraud, had inappropriate intentions…must I go on? He must be held accountable for his actions.

Agreed. Does anybody READ my POSTS, or do all of you just pick out my intense questions and focus on those???

Lisa is going to have to get her self “straight” or she’s not going to hold up in court.

I have said that MULTIPLE times.

So, I’m sure she’s holding herself accountable for her own actions. Like Rmet says she’s seeking answers and some support.

I disagree. She originally came here and asked how much money should she sue for. She did not come here seeking help/support.

I've gotta say something else here...I know what Lisa is going to face (I’ve been there, Conrad-Hutsell v. Colturi-Ohio) and it is going to be tough, but making sarcastic remarks or even intensive comments is just inappropriate and ignorant. These drugs can destroy lives every bit as much as “illegal street drugs”. They kill;they destroy families, marriages, and much more. They make good people make poor decisions. I'm not saying the pills grew legs and crawled into her mouth, I'm saying drugs change the chemical make up of the brain. It's not a joking matter (ie: coffee comment).


Sorry for the tangent!

I again disagree, and you are not living in the real world if you believe that my questions were inappropriate or ignorant. Read other posters in this forum and you will see ignorant. I said NOTHING inappropriate, and Lisa needs to get her collective sh*t together if she is going to go down the hard road of a lawsuit.
Lisa, you say you did not take the job to be closer to your prescriber, but what you fail to see is that the defense will try to prove that very thing!!! I do not care whether you did or not. No one really does. It is about what can be proven . And that will be just ONE of the many attacks on your character. The DUI will be brought up and used in any way possible, etc...
You need to get in the mode of explaining your actions, as benign as they may have seemed to you, they can and will be twisted.

Unfortunately you see me as an adversary...when I am the furthest thing from that.......