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abstract99

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Az

I have visitation with my kids during their fall break this year. I also have a court date the day before their break starts and the day after it ends. Because I have to travel to Arizona anyways it will be cheaper for me to just drive instead of buy 6 tickets for airline travel. I contacted my ex yesterday and stated as follows:

"XXXXXXXXXX,

I will be traveling to Tucson to pick up the children during the start of my visitation time with the children on 23 September 2006. Please have the children available for this. Since I have to be back in town again for court on the 16th of October, I will also be driving the kids back to Tucson on the 15th of October. There will be no need for you to drive to the airport to drop them off as they will be making both trips via car. I will be stopping in Texas for 2 days to visit with my brother and then will go up through Alabama so that they can visit with your mother as they have not seen her in a while. If you do not have my brother’s address anymore please let me know, otherwise I can be reached on my cell and you can reach the children on theirs. If you have any questions feel free to contact me."

She responded today with:

"I cannot allow you to travel with the kids this fall in the manner in which you say that you will. It will be too much on the kids to have to drive that entire distance and it is not fair to them to have to be in the car that long. Furthermore, without you purchasing airfare for the kids I do not know if you will actually return them to me as you say you will. You will need to purchase airfare for the kids, and I would prefer it is you fly with them as I do not like them to travel alone. Even if you do purchase the plane tickets you will need to change your itinerary around a bit. XXXXX has a boy scouts meeting on 9 October and he cannot miss this. Because of this I will need you to return the kids 7 or 8 days early. I have also been talking to the kids and they tell me that they will be visiting with your wife’s Grandparent’s this Christmas. I cannot allow this, Christmas is supposed to be a time that the kids spend with Family and they have never met these people before so they are basically strangers to the kids. It would ruin their holiday and if you would like to visit your wife’s side of the family over the holiday season, I will be more than happy to care for the kids while you do so."

Will any of this hold up in court? I don't see why I can't just drive it with the children. They have driven this with me before about 5 or 6 times. I haven't had my children for Christmas Day in 4 years and they are really looking forward to this one because my oldest daughter (their half-sister) will be visiting as well during this time.
 


CandiceH

Member
That response made me steam a little. First, what does your court order state in regards to travel for visitation. Does it state the MEANS of transportation? Were you awarded Christmas holiday visitation and she is trying to dictate WHERE you can take the children during your time?
 

abstract99

Senior Member
"Due to Father's relocation to Illinois he shall be solely responsible for the cost of transportation which he has expressed no objection to.

Father states to the court that he has to currently maintain a full time job in order to meet his monthly child support obligation and asks that, if necessary, his wife be permitted to transport the children.

IT IS ORDERED that in the absence of Father being able to personally transport the children to and from Tucson, his wife, XXXXXXXXXXX may act in his place._

I get the next 3 Christmasses because she took 2 of mine from me. Aslo, she constantly is taking the kids out of state to visit with her hubbies family. Then again, her family can't stand her, hence why I take the kids to her moms and not her. It should also be noted though that tis will be the 4th time now that we have tried to take the kids to visit with my wifes side of the family. I am not close to my side (except for 2 sisters) and my wifes family is pretty much the only family to me. My in-laws are the only ones that have been able to meet the kids and that was only for a week.
 
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CandiceH

Member
If the fall break is your parenting time and it is not stipulated in the court order HOW you are to travel then why should SHE be able to dictate something outside of the order? Also, she has no rights to tell you what you can do on YOUR parenting time! You have been on this board long enough to know this. The court date that you have the day before visitation, what is that one for?
 

NotSoNew

Senior Member
ha ha ha tell her to BITE ROCKS! who does she think she is? she cannot allow this? this is too much for them by car? they cant visit your wifes family for Xmas? you must return them EARLY for a boyscouts meeting? NO! no to it all! she has no grounds to stand on here.

but the down side is if you show up and she refuses the only thing you can do is file contempt on her (and call the police to document it)

she cannot say who you can and cannot visit for christmas, she cannot say you have to return your children early for a boyscouts meeting, and i dont think she can say that you cannot drive them either.
 

abstract99

Senior Member
CandiceH said:
The court date that you have the day before visitation, what is that one for?

It is for child support, I want it lowered from $902 a month to $500 based on my $1700 a month income and she is fighting it. I usually know the general answer but the problem is that sometimes my emotions and what I WANT can come in between what is actually legal and I want to make sure that when I say no that I can actually do this. I don;t know if anyone has been in the same situation where a judge has said that they have to travel via air and not car.
 

CandiceH

Member
Listen to NotSoNew! Tell her to BITE ROCKS! Then be prepared for not getting visitation and having to file contempt. You need to stand up. She can NOT dictate everything to you. The response that you received was absolutely ridiculous. Do you have others like this to show a pattern of her needing to control YOUR time with YOUR children?
 

abstract99

Senior Member
CandiceH said:
Listen to NotSoNew! Tell her to BITE ROCKS! Then be prepared for not getting visitation and having to file contempt. You need to stand up. She can NOT dictate everything to you. The response that you received was absolutely ridiculous. Do you have others like this to show a pattern of her needing to control YOUR time with YOUR children?

After checking my email account, I have 158 of these types of emails since July of 2004. I have already brought them into court, the judge doesn't want to read them all which I understand but still get pissed about. I am prepared to say no but after not seeing my kids in over a year [though I might have to option to on Saturday since I will be in town] I don't want to lose the time.
 

CandiceH

Member
I completely understand that, as would anyone else but you know what, you have to stand up for what is right. You have to fight or continue to lose. Print those emails, drive for visitation. Call the police when she doesnt surrender. Bet she will back off when she sees that you are serious.
 

CJane

Senior Member
Drive down. Pick up the kids. If she refuses to let you have them, you're going to be at the courthouse anyway, right? File an exparte motion to force her to release the children for visitation.

You do NOT have to bring them back early just because it's better for her.

This is why the 'oversight mechanism' was suggested, eh?

Find out if this is 'reasonable', but perhaps in what you're drafting up for the new order, you could request that a GAL or some sort of supervisor be appointed in order to facilitate visitation. For instance, you communicate with this third party re: scheduling and transportation arrangements, and the 3rd party communicates with the ex. Have it ordered that the two of you don't discuss visitation at all.
 

abstract99

Senior Member
CJane said:
This is why the 'oversight mechanism' was suggested, eh?

Find out if this is 'reasonable', but perhaps in what you're drafting up for the new order, you could request that a GAL or some sort of supervisor be appointed in order to facilitate visitation. For instance, you communicate with this third party re: scheduling and transportation arrangements, and the 3rd party communicates with the ex. Have it ordered that the two of you don't discuss visitation at all.

Yes, I think this is what he ment by oversite mech. Anyways, my currnet wife [a paralegal student] and I have been throwing around the idea of a GAL. Our main concern is that if the kids are just telling me they want to visit because they know that is what I want to hear but they really don't want to, that it might hurt me in the long run. My wife has access to some program called LexisNexis through school and has been able to pull up a few cases from Az where this has been an issue. Sometimes the GAL helps and sometimes they don't.
 

CJane

Senior Member
abstract99 said:
Yes, I think this is what he ment by oversite mech. Anyways, my currnet wife [a paralegal student] and I have been throwing around the idea of a GAL. Our main concern is that if the kids are just telling me they want to visit because they know that is what I want to hear but they really don't want to, that it might hurt me in the long run. My wife has access to some program called LexisNexis through school and has been able to pull up a few cases from Az where this has been an issue. Sometimes the GAL helps and sometimes they don't.

I know that the GAL in my case was invaluable. In fact, I was so confident in her ability to get at what the kids needed vs what they wanted, and to be unbiased in seeking what was in their best interests, that even had she found in my ex's favor, I would have had absolute faith that she'd made the right decision.

Maybe I was just lucky.

But the point isn't what your kids want, really. The point is that your ex is very clearly and consistently violating the court order in blatant ways, and she's getting away with it. A GAL would see that too, and most likely have little tolerance for it.
 

ceara19

Senior Member
abstract99 said:
It is for child support, I want it lowered from $902 a month to $500 based on my $1700 a month income and she is fighting it. I usually know the general answer but the problem is that sometimes my emotions and what I WANT can come in between what is actually legal and I want to make sure that when I say no that I can actually do this. I don;t know if anyone has been in the same situation where a judge has said that they have to travel via air and not car.

The only time I have ever heard of air travel being mandatory is in cases where there is a great distance and the child has medical problems that could make a long 2-3 day car trip dangerous for the child because of lack of quick access to medical treatment in case of an emergency.

I remember taking long car trips as a kid all the time with my parents and sisters. We all lived through it. Personally, I've gotten spoiled with free air travel the last few years, so I can even imagine taking a long car trip again.

There are TONS of things to keep kids occupied though. Here are a few good sites with ideas. Plan your road trip and have fun with the kids!
http://www.momsminivan.com/
http://familyfun.go.com/family-travel/road-trips/feature/famf48cargames/famf48cargames.html
http://www.roadtripplanning.com/road-trip-games.html
 

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