Is the 12 month/12k mi warranty extended? What is my best argument against Nissan?

[Fidelio1st]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
Car purchased used from individual, 5 years old, just under 52k miles

My Sentra has been into 3 different Nissan dealerships 18 times for the same or similar electrical repairs. When I took it into the dealer on 8/23/08 for the Service Engine Soon light being on, they charged me $165 to perform an Idle Air Relearn. That had a 12 month/12,000 mi warranty. On 1/9/09 my car would not start, so a different dealer charged me $449 to replace the ECU (the computer) and repair a wire. That had a 12 mo/12k mi warranty. On 1/28/09 the SESL light was on again, therefore I informed the dealer within 60 days that the previous fix did not work, yet they charged me another $302 to fix another wire. Then over the next three years, the dealer replaced 1 more ECU, 3 ETB's (Electronic Throttle Body), and performed an Idle Air Relearn at least 3 more times after my car shut down several times and the SESL light kept coming on with codes for the ETB or other similar problems - each time I had it in in less than 12 months. I've opened 6 files with Nissan Corporate, showing the manufacturer was fully aware.

I want to take Nissan Corporation to small claims court (or possibly find an attorney who might have a better option). My argument, which is listed on the back of their service invoice, is that "if a defect exists within the warranty period, the warranty will not expire until the defect has been fixed. The warranty period will also be extended if the warranty repairs… did not remedy the defect" therefore the 12 month/12k mi warranty never expired because the defect of my car shutting down (the last shut down was 12/30/11-12/31/11) was never fixed.

Therefore "“If, after a reasonable number of attempts, the defect has not been fixed, the buyer may return this product for a replacement or a refund…” 18 times is absolutely “a reasonable number of attempts” therefore Nissan should offer me a replacement or a refund/settlement and buy back the car - since the problem with the car is the entire electrical system and/or they do not know what is causing it to shut down.

I have also found three Technical Service Bulletins ( which describe the idling / shut down problems with my car proving this is a known issue with Nissan, yet they fail to issue a proper recall that will fix the problem.

Here is a pdf file which lists all the times I've had my car in along with detailed notes: [url]http://nissanhitachiclassaction.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/nissan-sentra-dts-letter-file-010512.pdf

Is the extension of the 12/12 warranty my best argument and a valid one, or is there a better one or multiple arguments I can use against Nissan?

 

[racer72]

Is the warranty transferrable? If not, you are SOL. Also, even if you were to sue in small claims, don't expect the case to remain there. Nissan will likely use a lawfirm to defend themself and they will move to have the case moved to a higher court. Once they have you there, you will be eaten alive with motions, continuances and subpeonas. You would be better served to talk to a local attorney to see if your case has merit and what your next step should be.

 

[Fidelio1st]

I'm confused by your question of transferable warranty - I am the one who took the car in.

Nissan can't move the case to a higher court and they cannot take a lawyer into small claims court, only a representative of the company. Look at how Heather Peters is suing Honda in CA:

Car owner takes legal fight away from lawyers - latimes.com
Dont Settle With Honda, Heather Peters!

 

[HomeGuru]

I'm confused by your question of transferable warranty - I am the one who took the car in.

**A: you bought the car used so the warranty was issued to the original owner and not you. Read the warranty question again.

 

[You Are Guilty]

It sounds like your beach of contract claim is with the dealer(s) who did the repair work. Why would you sue Nissan (unless you had the repairs done at the Nissan manufacturing plant?)

 

[Zigner]

To help the OP: The 12/12 warranty is on the WORK/PARTS. The OP is not referring to the original mfg. warranty...

 

[justalayman]

come on guys. OP is speaking of a warranty on work HE had done. Coffee time!!!

Look at how Heather Peters is suing Honda in CA:

and while she apparently got it into SCC (I suspect Honda did not really fight the issue as , due to this, a win is a meaningless win)

CHANG (the tech expert representing Honda in court): But I think the thing that is worth noting is lawyers have mentioned that even if Heather Peters is successful, Honda at that point could appeal to Los Angeles Superior Court. And when they do so, they will be allowed to have their lawyers then. So under that situation, they're kind of right back where they started. And now, Heather Peters is at a huge disadvantage

the courts apparently are still not clear that the statute of limitations has not expired as well as well as a couple other issues concerning procedure.

Then, Honda argued the mileage provided was not of their own determination but was the mileage as provide to them by the EPA. While the EPA stated Honda was well within their rights to use a lower mileage claim, I find nothing improper about using the claim the EPA had determined as accurate.






and what a surprise but Peters is a lawyer. I suspect the average non-lawyer plaintiff would not have gotten this far.

 

[Fidelio1st]

I find nothing improper about using the claim the EPA had determined as accurate

I believe Peters says she has smoking gun evidence that Honda knew the mileage was less (I believe someone else sued Honda for this previous), and in addition after their software update that was a recall, the Civic Hybrid's got less mileage, so part of her argument is their own software ruined the cars advertised mileage.

I've had my ECU (computer) reprogrammed 5 times (Idle Air Control Volume Relearn is reprogramming the ECU), AND 2 ECU's replaced (and 3 electronic throttle bodies - both ECU and ETB made by Hitachi Automotive) and my car is still shutting off on me as of 12/30/11-12/31/11. The dealership has called into the manufacturer's "tech line" and had a DTS (Dealership specialist technician) out to look at my car and advise on it, and still did not fix it properly.

Therefore, part of my argument is the fault is with the manufacturer and the part of the car, the computer, which controls everything and the shutting down problem of my car. Many others have reported the same exact problem to the National Highway Safety Traffic Admin. and other car forums, I have the info on my website (http://nissanhitachiclassaction.wordpress.com/research-others-complaints/).

So even though it's a 2002, 10 year old car, I first experienced the problem in Jan 2008 with under 52k miles (which it may have been just over 5 years old then depending on when it was sold in 2002), BUT the original owner had it in 2005 with only 29k miles and the problem "difficult to start SESL light on" which is the same problem I had. So this problem showed up when still under warranty with the original owner, and possibly year and mileage wise with me too.

All the info in this file: http://nissanhitachiclassaction.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/nissan-sentra-dts-letter-file-010512.pdf

So how can I use that info to my advantage? Don't you agree someone at Nissan is at fault here for a Sentra that has to be in the dealership 18 times for the same or similar electrical problems?

I don't want to sell my car on the private market as I don't want to hand my problems off to someone else. And they've devalued my car if I try to trade it in. I invested in Nissan's good name, and I'm left with a car that continues to break down due to the computer - what can I do? The car only has 78k miles on it now, I was expecting it to last until at least 100k miles - in the 4 years I've had it, I've only put on an average of 6.5k miles and everyone tells me, even Nissan's own Service Advisors, that it should not be breaking down like this.

 

[justalayman]

Fidelio1st;2996767]I believe Peters says she has smoking gun evidence that Honda knew the mileage was less (I believe someone else sued Honda for this previous)

,every car manufacturer in the world that sold cars in the US in 2006 knew the EPA ratings were not accurate. That is one huge reason the EPA changed how they perform their test. So, does that mean I get to sue whatever manufacturer built the car I bought that year?

and in addition after their software update that was a recall, the Civic Hybrid's got less mileage, so part of her argument is their own software ruined the cars advertised mileage.

that has nothing to do with the claim, at the time of purchase, of the expected mileage. That is a totally separate issue.

I've had my ECU (computer) reprogrammed 5 times (Idle Air Control Volume Relearn is reprogramming the ECU), AND 2 ECU's replaced (and 3 electronic throttle bodies - both ECU and ETB made by Hitachi Automotive) and my car is still shutting off on me as of 12/30/11-12/31/11. The dealership has called into the manufacturer's "tech line" and had a DTS (Dealership specialist technician) out to look at my car and advise on it, and still did not fix it properly.

I suspect the problem is not being repaired OR the parts used are defective. I would suggest some research to discover which, if either situation, might be applicable.

Therefore, part of my argument is the fault is with the manufacturer and the part of the car, the computer, which controls everything and the shutting down problem of my car. Many others have reported the same exact problem to the National Highway Safety Traffic Admin. and other car forums, I have the info on my website

but unless an actual cause is found, it is difficult to figure out who is liable.

So even though it's a 2002, 10 year old car, I first experienced the problem in Jan 2008 with under 52k miles (which it may have been just over 5 years old then depending on when it was sold in 2002), BUT the original owner had it in 2005 with only 29k miles and the problem "difficult to start SESL light on" which is the same problem I had. So this problem showed up when still under warranty with the original owner, and possibly year and mileage wise with me too.

the problem: they have repaired several items and although each of them appeared to have fixed the problem at hand, the problem returns. From what I can see, this is beyond the dealership and something the manufacturer should be looking into.

how many miles on the car now and when it has a problem, is it simply a no run situation or is there performance issue as well?

Don't you agree someone at Nissan is at fault here for a Sentra that has to be in the dealership 18 times for the same or similar electrical problems?

Probably

I don't want to sell my car on the private market as I don't want to hand my problems off to someone else.

that's good because if you did sell it, unless you informed them of the problem and they accepted the car knowing of the problem, you would likely be liable for the problems.

The car only has 78k miles on it now, I was expecting it to last until at least 100k miles - in the 4 years I've had it, I've only put on an average of 6.5k miles and everyone tells me, even Nissan's own Service Advisors, that it should not be breaking down like this.

didn;t read far enough before asking the mileage.

here is something that actually might help you:

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

pay attention to what is listed as a specified major emissions control component.

 

[Fidelio1st]

here is something that actually might help you:

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

pay attention to what is listed as a specified major emissions control component.

Wow, thanks!!!! That's very helpful, and yes, I see the ECU is a covered part of the emissions warranty.

So I'm under 80k miles, but over 8 years, but when I first took it in, and many times thereafter, I was under both. So think I can still argue that my car should be covered under the "DESIGN AND DEFECT WARRANTY" with Nissan even though it's over 8 years? Or how can I now use this information?

They've already replaced 2 ECU's and it didn't fix the problem. And they had the car for 2 weeks after the last failure but couldn't duplicate the problem, so they refused to do anything to it....

 

[Fidelio1st]

One more question

that's good because if you did sell it, unless you informed them of the problem and they accepted the car knowing of the problem, you would likely be liable for the problems.

Absolutely, that's why I don't want to sell it on the private market. And if I did, I would disclose it and probably have to sell a couple thousand or more below KBB, which I really cannot afford to do, which is why I'm fighting Nissan so hard.

Question: do I have to disclose these electrical problems if I trade-in at a dealer (a non-Nissan dealer)?

Don't they typically buy a trade-in as is?

I hope Nissan won't force me to do that, but if they won't take responsibility, I may not have a choice. But I would like to know my legal obligations when trading in.

 

[justalayman]

Absolutely, that's why I don't want to sell it on the private market. And if I did, I would disclose it and probably have to sell a couple thousand or more below KBB, which I really cannot afford to do, which is why I'm fighting Nissan so hard.

Question: do I have to disclose these electrical problems if I trade-in at a dealer (a non-Nissan dealer)?

Don't they typically buy a trade-in as is?

I hope Nissan won't force me to do that, but if they won't take responsibility, I may not have a choice. But I would like to know my legal obligations when trading in.

it would be dicey, at best, to fail to inform them. AS IS covers a lot of issues but something such as this might be seen as an intentional deception. If they ask if there are any known problems, you would assuredly be required to divulge the issue.

 

[Fidelio1st]

I hear you...

Technically there is no problem right now. It last shut down 12/30/11-12/31, the dealer had it for 2 weeks but could not duplicate the problem, therefore according to both the dealer and the manufacturer (because Nissan corporate refused to do anything else) there's nothing wrong with the car or nothing that can be fixed and no problem they could find.

And as of now it's driving fine and there's no SESL light on. So technically there is no problem right now ... so if they ask if there are any problems now, I wouldn't be lying if I say no. I guess if they ask about past problems, I have to figure out how to answer that. Again, what exactly do I have to divulge and/or what would be the best way to do that?

 

[Zigner]

Depending on where you "trade in" the car, the question may be: Are there any issues that you've had with the vehicle that may affect the value of the vehicle?