It's so hard to prove...

[tuffbrk]

What is the name of your state? NJ

Essentially, they can only act on what they can prove. If they cannot prove abuse or neglect, they can only request parenting classes or counseling, they cannot compel it. If you feel there is demonstrable abuse occurring, then, perhaps, you should consider going back to court to modify custody and visitation.

- Carl__________________
Didn't want to hijack the prior post so copied and pasted.

I "get" what you're saying. But it's so hard to prove. I was stuck (currently am still stuck) living with my now Ex. He would throw his chest at mine. It would knock me backwards or I'd fall against a wall. Thereafter, all he really had to do was take a step towards me with a certain look on his face and I'd run. BUT because it was chest/body slams there were no bruises, no reddened fingerprints, no marks to be found. I could not prove it whatsoever. Twice I applied for, and was denied, a TRO. There was no physical evidence (other than my hysteria).

Considering how many lies my Ex spouts, and how completely convincing he is - I can appreciate that "proof" above and beyond someone's word is required. When I read some of the posts of false allegations in this forum, I can appreciate it as well.

Yet, on the other hand, knowing how I feel locking myself in my room when I return from work, or how scary it is when the Ex gets mad and what it's like having to endure sharing close quarters with someone who is so physically intimidating- well, I can't help but feel sorry for this 8 yo child and her mother who is in an incredibly difficult position.

I guess the legal question here is - what if there are no physical marks? How do you then prove abuse? Is there any type of testing available that would show signs of verbal/mental abuse that are admissible or close to being admissible?

 

[stealth2]

It isn't illegal to be verbally mean to someone. He's allowed to yell at you. And vice versa. You're both allowed to glare at one another. You're even allowed to puff your chest at him. You can't touch one another in anger.

So what do you do? Walk away. Literally and figuratively.

 

[tuffbrk]

An 8 yo can't walk away from her court ordered visitation. And I'm not talking about being verbally "mean" - but rather verbally abusive. I think it's more damaging in that the scars are to the heart/self esteem - define it as you wish. The impact to one's behavior, which then may impact actions taken or not taken.

IDK - physical bruises - they are there, they are photographed, you have proof - an order gets issued. The abuse is then stopped. You get to walk away. Well -at least that's what the law intends. I read the newspaper accounts that often illustrate exactly how little protection it can afford you if the other party ignores the order.

Whereas verbal and mental abuse - you're beaten down before you even realize it. If you're lucky, you manage to tape it and a judge will consider listening to it as evidence. So then maybe you get to walk away too.

Just wish there were some solution to it. Some type of testing of your responses, etc. that would be proof of trauma to your pysche I guess it would be.

You say walk away - well, if you disobey a court order or a state law and yet can't prove your concerns - you're the party that is reprimanded and penalized...so it's not as easy as just walking away. Although I do understand the point you are making.

 

[stealth2]

You get the kid counseling, help them find ways to deal with the situation. In time, they will get old enough and deal with it themselves. Unfortunately - that's often the only way.