legal Help Infringement w/ Evidence HELP !!!!

[nwoh50]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio

PLEASE READ I would REALLY REALLY appreciate it ! THANK YOU !!

24-yrs old male from toledo,ohio

I need to know where i stand, with a problem i have.
Patent help etc ..Infringement of product [Have signed agreement]

I didn't get a patent for my product idea, because i
read in a patent book [Patent it yourself]David
Pressman

In one of his Chapters, he talks about Not getting a
patent, because Company don't want to deal with people
patents that they already filed, Best to let company
do the work.

So with that in mind...
I contacted a company [NRAuto.com]about making and
Carrying my product.

They make aftermarket car gauges etc.

So I wrote a contract up about my product, detailed write up.. got
signed etc.[ I have the Org. e-mail's i sent the
company, and the org pics i sent them too]

the company viewed my product,[they looked over my
pics/ info i sent them] .. They also called to let me
know they are reviewing my product.

NR Auto told me if i wanted my product to be made,
they would need 100 Min. orders , before they could do
anything.

[Knowing i have Contract agreement,sign/dated
In Contract "keep everything CONFIDENTIAL" ]

I posted pics of my product design on a Stang site
called [Stangnet.com] To got some feedback and hope
to get some Orders for the product]
Remember i need 100 Min.

i never got 100 orders.. to hard at the time to get
the word out about my product. [i was in my late
teenager years,&early 20's]


few days pass by... They turned down the product idea,
They say it didn't fit into where there product line
was going.


months go by..[i have dated time frame i can show on
ReQ to give you a better idea when this all went down]


Reading a car Mag.. See a Ad for my Product[100%
Match, even the selling price]

this is another conpany, [ uprproducts.com ]

They also deal with aftermarket parts for mustangs
and few other models.

I found out from the Owner of the Stang Site
[Stangnet] .. that some Companys,Use the Forums.. to
get an idea of what people Like/Dislike

He told me he knows for sure UPR Guys use the StangNet
Forums .

" There we go "

They seen the Thread i had started about my product
idea, They Stole it from me, and now are making $$ of
it. !!!

I did make a deal with a guy in TEXAS, that he would
get the first set that was made, Because i used his
pics, he sent me to use..

he has the RPM/Speedo Cluster in El Glow] My product
was for the A/C Panel to be El Glow too]

He said i could Contact him , if i ever went to court
over this matter, He would tell you , he replyed with
interest to my Thread on StangNet about my product.

I have all the E-mails from the
First Company [Nrauto].. with the pics i sent them too
[all org. unedited] and All detail write up about the
Product, Besides the Contract I had Sign/dated .

The Evidence will speak for it's self, just need to
know my legal ground, what to do next. !

I would appreciate it alot if i could speak to an attorney !!

If you could just send an e-mail over then i could reply with a # to call if needed.
nwoh50@yahoo.com

THANKS Again

Troy.Z

 

[divgradcurl]

Your info is pretty hard to follow, the way it is written, but here's what I got out of it:

1. You invented something;
2. You approached a company (NRAuto) and showed them the idea, and apparently have some sort of nondisclosure (confidentiality) agreement with them;
3. You posted pictures of your invention on the "Stang" boards;
4. Another company (uprproducts) began selling a product identical to your invention.

Is that the gist of it?

 

[nwoh50]

Your info is pretty hard to follow, the way it is written, but here's what I got out of it:

1. You invented something;
2. You approached a company (NRAuto) and showed them the idea, and apparently have some sort of nondisclosure (confidentiality) agreement with them;
3. You posted pictures of your invention on the "Stang" boards;
4. Another company (uprproducts) began selling a product identical to your invention.

Is that the gist of it?

Yes...just wanted to make sure, everyone got the right info the first time.

This is all without a patent, but with signed nondisclosure and more Evidence
[e-mails/pics/ dated] Still have my Rough Draft i wrote for NR Auto

Thanks !
troy

 

[divgradcurl]

Yes...just wanted to make sure, everyone got the right info the first time.

If this is right, then I really don't see where you have any sort of case to begin with. You don't have a patent, so you don't have any "rights" to the invention that you can protect -- that's why you obtain a patent, so that you can have protectible rights in your invention.

If NRAuto was the one producing and selling your "invention," then MAYBE you might have a cause of action for breach of contract (breach of the confidentiality agreement), but that would depend on the exact wording of the confidentiality agreement.

But case do you think you have against uprproducts? You don't have a patent, so you don't have any protectible rights in the invention. You don't have any sort of contract with them, like you do with NRAuto. How do you suppose they are liable to you? I guess if you can prove that they are "in on it": with NRAuto, maybe you could get them as part of the breach of contract issue, but that's about it.

The fact is, without a patent, once you display, market, discuss, etc., your invention, ANYONE can then go use your invention, and there simply isn't anything you can do about it. That's the way the system works -- if you have something valuable, you need to take steps to protect it. In the case of an invention, the way you protect it is by filing for a patent. Without a patent, you either have to keep you invention secret -- which you admittedly didn't do when you placed the info on the bulletin boards, but you did do with your confidentiality agreement with NRAuto) -- or you face the prospect of someone else thinking your idea is a good one and marketing it and selling it themselves.

Here, you had two chances to protect your invention -- y6ou could have sought out a patent (but it appears you got a book that gave you very poor advice), or you could have worked through NRAuto under the confidentiality agreement. But here, YOU took your idea public. so, based on what you've written, it doesn't sound like you have anyone to blame for this but yourself. The bottom line is, once you put an invention or idea out to the public, if you don't have a patent, anyone else is free to use it without paying you or asking your permission.

 

[nwoh50]

If this is right, then I really don't see where you have any sort of case to begin with. You don't have a patent, so you don't have any "rights" to the invention that you can protect -- that's why you obtain a patent, so that you can have protectible rights in your invention.

If NRAuto was the one producing and selling your "invention," then MAYBE you might have a cause of action for breach of contract (breach of the confidentiality agreement), but that would depend on the exact wording of the confidentiality agreement.

But case do you think you have against uprproducts? You don't have a patent, so you don't have any protectible rights in the invention. You don't have any sort of contract with them, like you do with NRAuto. How do you suppose they are liable to you? I guess if you can prove that they are "in on it": with NRAuto, maybe you could get them as part of the breach of contract issue, but that's about it.

The fact is, without a patent, once you display, market, discuss, etc., your invention, ANYONE can then go use your invention, and there simply isn't anything you can do about it. That's the way the system works -- if you have something valuable, you need to take steps to protect it. In the case of an invention, the way you protect it is by filing for a patent. Without a patent, you either have to keep you invention secret -- which you admittedly didn't do when you placed the info on the bulletin boards, but you did do with your confidentiality agreement with NRAuto) -- or you face the prospect of someone else thinking your idea is a good one and marketing it and selling it themselves.

Here, you had two chances to protect your invention -- y6ou could have sought out a patent (but it appears you got a book that gave you very poor advice), or you could have worked through NRAuto under the confidentiality agreement. But here, YOU took your idea public. so, based on what you've written, it doesn't sound like you have anyone to blame for this but yourself. The bottom line is, once you put an invention or idea out to the public, if you don't have a patent, anyone else is free to use it without paying you or asking your permission.

I was told some products like this can't be patented.. I though the product idea was Safe being i had a signed agreement AT the time.

What if there not a patent on this filed yet...?
I tried to search on uspto.gov but came up with Nothing close to my product. .. Car product for some reason Never showup on the uspto site.
I search many many different titles.

 

[divgradcurl]

I was told some products like this can't be patented..

Many things cannot be patented -- there is no way to tell from what you've written whether your particular invention could have been patented or not.

I though the product idea was Safe being i had a signed agreement AT the time.

Well, it might have been safe IF the party you had an agreement with was the one who "stole" your invention -- in that case, you might have a cause of action against the company for breaching your confidentiality contract. However, in this case, it appears that it was a DIFFERENT company that is marketing an invention that is apparently the same as your idea -- you don't have a contract with them, so unless you can connect the two companies together, there really isn't any way to hold the second company to the contract you signed with the first company.

Secondly, the contract was to keep the invention confidential -- but then YOU went out an publicized it. I think you might have a tough time proving a breach of confidentiality when YOU yourself made your invention public.

What if there not a patent on this filed yet...?

It's probably too late. Generally, you have one year from when YOU made the invention public before you have to file for a patent. However, if someone ELSE creates and publicizes your invention before you file, that's it -- there is no 1 year "grace period" to file your application.

From what you've written, it doesn't sound like you have much of a cause of action against anybody. However, you should probably take all of your evidence down to a local attorney, who can review all of the relevant facts of your situation and advise you accordingly.

 

[auxbs]

It's probably too late. Generally, you have one year from when YOU made the invention public before you have to file for a patent. However, if someone ELSE creates and publicizes your invention before you file, that's it -- there is no 1 year "grace period" to file your application.

Could you elaborate on this part a little? I have heard something like this before, but haven't been able to find a section of the law where if someone ELSE creates and publicizes an invention before you file for a patent, the one year grace period is forfeited...

Company A starts selling a product, but doesn't file for a patent yet.

Company B copies company A's product and starts selling their own version.

Even though neither company has been selling the product for more than a year, Company A can no longer apply for a patent now that Company B has copied Company A's product?

 

[divgradcurl]

Could you elaborate on this part a little? I have heard something like this before, but haven't been able to find a section of the law where if someone ELSE creates and publicizes an invention before you file for a patent, the one year grace period is forfeited...

Company A starts selling a product, but doesn't file for a patent yet.

Company B copies company A's product and starts selling their own version.

Even though neither company has been selling the product for more than a year, Company A can no longer apply for a patent now that Company B has copied Company A's product?

That is correct IF B starts publically selling their own version BEFORE A either 1) files for a patent, or 2) makes the invention publically known and files within 1 year of that public discolsure. If B publically discloses the invention before A either files for a patent or discloses to the public, A is sunk.

Here's the relevant law:

35 U.S.C. 102 Conditions for patentability; novelty and loss of right to patent.
A person shall be entitled to a patent unless -

(a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or

(b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the date of the application for patent in the United States, or


If "A" publicly discloses first, then under 102(b), he has a year to file for his patent, and "B" may not file for a patent under both 102(a).

If "B" publicly discloses first in the U.S. (by selling, writing an article, marketing materials, etc.) then "A" may not obtain a patent because of 102(a).

102(e) stuff mainly applies to "foreign" prior art and disclosures. If both A and B are in the U.S., and the sales are taking place in the U.S., then look to 102(a) and 102(b). It's not clear from the law itself, but caselaw really restricts 102(b) to sales and disclosures by the inventor -- in other words, "B's" sales before "A's" application will bar "A" from obtaining a patent, but "A's" sales prior to "A's" application (as long as the 1 year time limit has not expired) will not bar "A" from obtaining a patent.

 

[auxbs]

So, IF
1. Nwoh50 published the invention BEFORE upr starting selling their product and
2. One year has not yet passed since nwoh50 first published the invention,
THEN nwoh50 could still file for a patent right now, right?

 

[divgradcurl]

So, IF
1. Nwoh50 published the invention BEFORE upr starting selling their product and
2. One year has not yet passed since nwoh50 first published the invention,
THEN nwoh50 could still file for a patent right now, right?

Assuming the Nwoh50's invention is otherwise patentable, and assuming the facts are as stated, then yes.

 

[nwoh50]

Assuming the Nwoh50's invention is otherwise patentable, and assuming the facts are as stated, then yes.

Here is the product ad on-line. Covers all the years i said 87-2004
http://www.uprproducts.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=598

UPR EL & Reverse Glow A/C faceplates (87-04) Mustangs
Part Number: # 1350

Here's the pics i sent to NR auto..
Told them [In e-mail] would have a Day and Night pics

DAY pic...[white faced]
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=9u5a9s

and Night pic !
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=9u5au9



what do you think ?

 

[divgradcurl]

Here is the product ad on-line. Covers all the years i said 87-2004
http://www.uprproducts.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=598

UPR EL & Reverse Glow A/C faceplates (87-04) Mustangs
Part Number: # 1350

Here's the pics i sent to NR auto..
Told them [In e-mail] would have a Day and Night pics

DAY pic...[white faced]
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=9u5a9s

and Night pic !
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=9u5au9



what do you think ?

I'm not sure what you are asking here -- what I think is, like I noted in my previous posts, based on what you've written, you don't have anything protectible, and chalk this up to a learning experience. I also think that you should perhaps take everything you have down to a local attorney, who can review all of the facts and advise you accordingly.