What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY. I own a piece of recreational property along with my brothers. My one brother has a 25 yr old son who continuallly steals and destroys things on the property (From inside the cabin). His father (my brother) gives him the key and tells to take whatever he wants. This is community property. Do My other brother and myself have any rights to keep this kid off the property? If we change the locks the kid will break them if he does not have a key. What can I do? Thanks!!!
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Legal Trespass?
- Thread starter Mercury
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No and this brother can't keep you or your kids from using the cabin either.
If the brother who's son is damaging the property doesn't care and is in fact doing it with his blessing (from the way your post reads) then there isn't much you can do other than try to buy him out of his share or sell the cabin, everyone gets their due share from the sale and you can buy another cabin by yourself.
Then you can have anyone who enters your property without permission arrested for trespassing, vandalism or burglary.
Have you and your other brother tried talking to the one with the delinquent son and voicing your concerns?
justalayman
Senior Member
if the property taken is community property or it is not owened by the father of the kid, the kid is liable for the other brothers share of the value. He can give away his own property but he cannot give away others. This also applies to damages he causes. He is liable to you and the other brother for your and his share of the value of the damage.
You can't keep him off the property but you can sue him for your 1/3 and the other brother for his 1/3 (presuming this a 3 way deal) losses.
You can't keep him off the property but you can sue him for your 1/3 and the other brother for his 1/3 (presuming this a 3 way deal) losses.
Actually, if the kid is taking community property with his fathers permission, it is the father, or your brother who can be held liable for the loss to you and your other brother, if you can prove that he gives his son a key and tells him to "take whatever he wants".
I didn't suggest this in my post, because taking one brother to court over this situation will usually cause more problems between siblings, than it will recover any losses for you.
For example, lets say this 25 year old tells dad that he needs a refrigerator and dad tells him to go take the one at the cabin because no one's using that one much anyway. Then while the kid's there he and his friends break a window or two, dump beer on the TV which ruins it and put cigarette burns in the bearskin rug.
Now you all end up in small claims court. The dad and his kid will claim the windows were broken by vandals and they planned on fixing them next time they go there and the glass only costs ten dollars. The television was an old beat up thing that didn't get any channels clear enough to watch and it probably just died of old age. Even if they admit to taking the refrigerator, what can anyone expect to recover for their 1/3rd share of a used refrigerator? Then dad will also be claiming he repaired the roof and painted the deck which he paid for all the paint and materials for, yada yada yada.
I've seen these situations happen over and over again and there is never any winner, just a bunch of finger pointing, blame passing accusations which ends up making everyone hate each other.
This one uses the cabin five times as much as the other so they should be responsible for five times the wear and tear,,, it just never ends.
Additionally, if the OP expects to win a small claims case against the brother and/or his son, he/she would have to go inspect the cabin, take pictures of everything and do an inventory before and immediately after the son or his dad used it for a weekend and every time they use it.
Otherwise there would be no way to prove that vandals didn't actually do the damages/stealing/borrowing/burning etc.
When a great thing like having a cabin to escape to for the weekend becomes the center of a major family dispute, it certainly takes all the joy out of owning the thing.
So the only solution is to get everyone together and come up with some set of rules that everyone will agree to and adhere to when they use the cabin. Like everyone has to haul their trash away, wash the bed linens, chop firewood for the next guy and not leave a big mess. Basically do all the things that most people would expect of each other if they had any respect for each other.
If you can't get everyone to agree to take care of it for each other, then you need to buy him out, or sell the thing and each of you take your due share.
When you have to use the court system to try to get your brother and his son under control, it just isn't a good idea to have him as a partner.
Sure your brother could get a restraining order but if you believe that this nephew is actually capable of carrying out such a threat, do you think he will abide by the terms of the order?
So if you or your brother truly fear this nut case and believe he has the potential to carry out violent attacks on his own aunt and uncle, I suggest you cut all ties with him.
What I'm getting at, is that there may be legal action you can take in order to force certain issues regarding this cabin. But my personal belief is that when the situation requires going to court, hiring attorneys and asking the judge to play referee in order to protect your personal interest and more importantly, your safety and well being, it's time to consider whether it will be worth the time, money and aggravation you will be going through in order to have some peace of mind with this cabin situation. Because there's no guarantee that will happen.
What does his dad /your brother have to say about all this? Is it even possible for him to control his son at this point? If his son has no respect for you at this point, is it rational to expect that he will at any time in the future?
Only you know the reality of the whole situation and quite frankly, the answer to this family trouble is not going to be found on the Internet. No one can make up your mind on what to do but you. You have all known each other all your lives and should certainly know by now, if this is a situation that can be worked out, or if it's going to be one headache after another.
Good luck, it's a shame that having some place you should be able to go to unwind and leave your troubles at home for a few days, becomes more trouble than any you might want to escape from.
justalayman
Senior Member
this is one of those "sue everybody; let the courts decide" issues. Several possibilities that could make it go either way.
This all sounds like a PITA.
I would seek to dissolve this brotherly relationship either by the 2 good guys buying our bro #3 or bro #3 buying out the 2 good guys. If he is resistant, the courts can force the issue if you want to go that far with it but it can get ugly with a capital U.
This seems important enough to have been the entire subject of the first post. Curious that it was left out.
When you begin by saying that you want to ban your nephew from the property because he ruins and takes things, and you don't get the answer you want, so you start adding more inflamatory details to try to get the answer you want, it makes it appear that you aren't really seeking information about your legal options and sensible suggestions about handling the situation, but that you just want to get what you want.
That's just my point of view.