Liability insurance?!

[MountainDew]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

I lease a small commercial building for personal use. It is not a business. I do not have a business liscense. I do not conduct any business on premises.

The landlord has mutiple units for lease, and, as per her own words they can be used for "storage" or "small business" or other similar uses. There is no REQUIREMENT for a tennant to run a business. (in fact, one guy lives there) It is zoned medium industrial.

I've already been there more than a year, and I'm signing a new lease next month. The landlord is trying to require me to have a 2 million dollar liability insurance policy. This has never been a requirement before, and I will move out before I get any liability insurance.

I don't understand why the landlord is trying to require this? What benefit is it to her whether I have liability insurance or not? Liability insurance only protects me, not the landlord, right?! In the past our lease just said "renters insurance recommended but not required".

Considering the fact that I'm NOT a business, can I even buy or use small business liability insurance? Also, since I'm not a business...where is the liability? Nobody is allowed in the building besides myself, and, if I understand correctly it's totally my fault (not the LL) if I hurt myself or somebody else...right?

I don't live there, but basically I consider this place private property, just like my house. Of course if I was renting a house I wouldn't need $2 million in liability coverage. And if I was renting it as a storage unit I wouldn't either.

 

[JETX]

The landlord can require that you do anything that they want. If you don't want to do it, then don't sign the lease and find another place.

As to WHY the landlord requires it... ask them.
Pretty simple, huh??

 

[MountainDew]

The landlord can require that you do anything that they want. If you don't want to do it, then don't sign the lease and find another place.

I am well aware of that. Like I said, if the landlord is going to require it then I'm moving. It will only cost her several months rent in the end and in this area I have plenty other options. That underlines the fact to the landlord that my place would likely be empty for several months...

My question is what reason would a landlord need a tennant to have liability insurance for? Isn't that strictly for the tennant, and has nothing to do with the landlord? I thought the landlord was already exempt from liability as far as anything I might do to injure myself or someone else or other lawsuits. The main point of liability insurance is to protect your business from lawsuits...but if I'm not a business, why would I need that...and furthermore, could I even buy such a thing if I wanted to?

Sure I will ask the landlord why, but I'd like to know the answers to my questions first. I think my landlord is dumb enough to think this liability insurance covers her too, but I think that is incorrect...am I wrong? It wouldn't be the first time I had to 'fix' the lease for her due to improper and contradictory statements. *sigh* The landlord is only about 25 years old, inherited the building by accident, and has no idea how to run it. Tennants that were here before she took over are very unhappy with the way she runs things.

 

[Zigner]

I am well aware of that. Like I said, if the landlord is going to require it then I'm moving. It will only cost her several months rent in the end and in this area I have plenty other options. That underlines the fact to the landlord that my place would likely be empty for several months...

My question is what reason would a landlord need a tennant to have liability insurance for? Isn't that strictly for the tennant, and has nothing to do with the landlord? I thought the landlord was already exempt from liability as far as anything I might do to injure myself or someone else or other lawsuits. The main point of liability insurance is to protect your business from lawsuits...but if I'm not a business, why would I need that...and furthermore, could I even buy such a thing if I wanted to?

Sure I will ask the landlord why, but I'd like to know the answers to my questions first. I think my landlord is dumb enough to think this liability insurance covers her too, but I think that is incorrect...am I wrong? It wouldn't be the first time I had to 'fix' the lease for her due to improper and contradictory statements. *sigh* The landlord is only about 25 years old, inherited the building by accident, and has no idea how to run it. Tennants that were here before she took over are very unhappy with the way she runs things.

I'm sorry - but how do you expect US to divine the LL's reasoning. Why don't you have a conversation...it doesn't have to be confrontational and you may be able to understand things better...

ETA: Your liability insurance CAN cover the LL - happens all the time.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Hello, you carrying any liability, as long as its properly written will definately cover the LL if not for the simpleist reason, if you burn down her property...

Hundreds of other senerio's too.
Duh.

 

[atomizer]

In the event of a lawsuit, the lawyers will go after the deep pockets. If you are insured, then the LL liability is minimized.

 

[MountainDew]

In the even of a lawsuit, the lawyers will go after the deep pockets. If you are insured, then the LL liability is minimized.

I still don't understand why that would have anything to do with the landlord. If I get sued, then I get sued. Not the landlord. Why would the landlord be involved at all?

The landlord already has insurance for her building. This "liability insurance" doesn't cover her building, it covers me. Even if the building burns down, it's not even worth 1/10th of the $2 million she is asking for.

Right now my old lease is still valid, and I have no liability insurance. The landlord is already not liable for anything that isn't directly her fault, am I wrong? I hurt my knee in there last month, can I sue her for that? I doubt it...

 

[aabbcc]

The landlord is already not liable for anything that isn't directly her fault, am I wrong?

Property owners can be named in lawsuits for an occurance on the property.
Is the landlord liable? A court will decide.

I hurt my knee in there last month, can I sue her for that? I doubt it...

Actually, you could sue for your knee injury. Would you win? I don't know.

The landlord does not want the expense of defending a lawsuit (win or lose). This is where the insurance policy plays in. The policy takes care of legal expenses and any Judgment up to the limit of the policy.

 

[atomizer]

Your problem stems from not understanding the insurance system.

For example;

What may happen if you decide to get a dog and it bites your friend? Your friend may get a lawyer and file a lawsuit against you. The lawyer will also include the landlord in the lawsuit since that is the general practice, and she is presumed to be the deeper pockets. Do you think the LL wants her insurance Co to be liable for whatever payment the Judge decides? Her insurance CO may drop her or increase her payments.

Yes, if you sprain your ankle and sue your LL, you may win the case. It's been known to happen. I read of a case where a drunk tenant fell down over a small wall on the landlords property. He sued and won.

 

[MountainDew]

Well, my current lease says:

Lessee agrees to and shall indemnify and hold lessor harmless against any and all claims and demands arising from the negligence of the lessee, lessee's officers, agents, invitees, and/or employees, as well as those arising from the lessee's failure to comply with any covenant of this lease on lessee's part to be performed, and at lessee's own expense defend the lessor against any and all suits or actions arising out of such negligence, actual or alleged, and all appeals therefrom and shall satisfy and discharge any judgement which may be awarded against lessor in any such suit or action.

It is also handwritten that the owner is not to be responsible for any damages to persons or property while on the premises.

Given those statements, can I still sue the landlord for hurting my own knee? Isn't that why those statements are in there to begin with? If I put that into plain english it would say:
"Owner is responsible for nothing. Lessee is responsible legally and otherwise for anything that might happen on premises including personal injury or damage." Is that not true?

Liability insurance is not normally required when you rent a house, is it?

 

[MountainDew]

The problem is that I know more about being a landlord than my landlord does. I have to teach her how to do things. I need to know what the rules are before I talk to her, so that I am able to explain it to her like a 5 year old. She doesn't understand most of the legal wording in the lease she (probably illegally) photocopied. She is no professional landlord, and, probably couldn't find a lawyer with a phonebook. I *KNOW* she has never personally spoken to a lawyer about what her liabilities might be and how she might need to protect herself.

 

[MountainDew]

Also nobody answered my other question...if I'm not a business...and have no business license...then how can I even buy liability insurance? Do they even sell such a product to private parties? Everything I have looked at is for small businesses, which I am absolutely not. Renter's insurance is the product I should be using, but she is not requiring that.

 

[You Are Guilty]

What you LL wants (and should want) is you to have a Commercial General Liability (CGL) policy, which is what would pick up the tab for the legal fees if the LL gets sued for something related to your tenancy. I am not an insurance broker, but I have never seen a CGL written for an individual. However, many renters' policies have (or, offer for a higher premium) similar coverage for GL lawsuits as CGL policies do. I suspect such a policy would make your LL happy. Speak to some brokers and see what can be done.

(For future reference, this is a good example of why people negotiate their commercial lease terms before taking possession. Now, even if you get a renter's policy, you may still technically be breaching your lease. A few quick strokes of the pen prior to signing it would have avoided this whole problem!)

Good luck.

 

[MountainDew]

For future reference, this is a good example of why people negotiate their commercial lease terms before taking possession.

That's why I'm asking now, the lease isn't up for another 2 weeks. The LL has changed the terms from what they used to be. I have rented from her for over a year and the issue has never been brought up before. When I moved in, she didn't even do a credit check on me, or even ask for ID.

If she is going to react negatively and stupidly about this, then I am ready to move out. It will be her loss, not mine. In this neighborhood there are at least 10 other similar empty buildings for similar prices. The bad economy really killed this industrial part of town, that's why I have a "hobby shop" there and not a business.

Honestly this woman constantly reacts oddly and contradicts herself without any sort of clear thought process or professional appearance. I suspect she may be using my rent money for drugs. Either that or she needs to be medicated...

I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[You Are Guilty]

There are no special qualifications that make someone a LL. Which is why, like in every other occupation, you get good ones and bad ones. So contest the change in the insurance requirements clause, make your pitch like you were explaining it to a 12 year old, and let the chips fall. If the vacancy rate is as high as you think, it doesn't sound like it will be all that big a loss if the LL sticks to her guns.