Liable for crib sold?

[goldenboy232]

I live in Washington state and my wife and I sold a baby crib about two months ago via Craigslist to another couple. The couple pointed out to us yesterday that they'd learned via this link...

http://www.cpsc.gov/onsafety/2011/06/the-new-crib-standard-questions-and-answers/

...that the crib we sold them is considered a safety hazard and is no longer being sold, and furthermore that it is illegal to re-sell or donate such a crib.

Neither my wife nor I, nor this other couple, had any clue as to this new regulation when our sale occurred.

Am I legally responsible to return their money, as they are now requesting? The sale price was $150.

Thanks!

 

[Ohiogal]

I live in Washington state and my wife and I sold a baby crib about two months ago via Craigslist to another couple. The couple pointed out to us yesterday that they'd learned via this link...

http://www.cpsc.gov/onsafety/2011/06/the-new-crib-standard-questions-and-answers/

...that the crib we sold them is considered a safety hazard and is no longer being sold, and furthermore that it is illegal to re-sell or donate such a crib.

Neither my wife nor I, nor this other couple, had any clue as to this new regulation when our sale occurred.

Am I legally responsible to return their money, as they are now requesting? The sale price was $150.

Thanks!

Truthfully if it is illegal for that crib to have been resold, yes, you should return their money. Doesn't matter if you did not know about the regulation. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

[Zigner]

It is possible that the manufacturer has provided an approved "fix" for the problem with the crib. See http://www.cpsc.gov/onsafety/2010/12/crib-immobilizers-who-to-call/

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

From what I read, the language used was "should not be sold". I suggest you research the issue there yourself.

A consumer should not resell, donate or give away a crib that does not meet the new crib standards, such as trying to resell the product through an online auction site or donating to a local thrift store. CPSC recommends disassembling the crib before discarding it.

 

[Zigner]

From what I read, the language used was "should not be sold". I suggest you research the issue there yourself.

From the link the OP posted: Beginning June 28, 2011, all cribs manufactured and sold (including resale) must comply with new and improved federal safety standards. The new rules, which apply to full-size and non full-size cribs, prohibit the manufacture or sale of traditional drop-side rail cribs, strengthen crib slats and mattress supports, improve the quality of hardware and require more rigorous testing.

It stands to reason that one should not do what is prohibited by law.

 

[LdiJ]

From the link the OP posted: Beginning June 28, 2011, all cribs manufactured and sold (including resale) must comply with new and improved federal safety standards. The new rules, which apply to full-size and non full-size cribs, prohibit the manufacture or sale of traditional drop-side rail cribs, strengthen crib slats and mattress supports, improve the quality of hardware and require more rigorous testing.

It stands to reason that one should not do what is prohibited by law.

I agree that the crib probably should not have been sold at all, and definitely should not have been sold through craigslist. However, there really are fixes to make older cribs safe for use. I used a 100 year old crib for my child. I wanted her to be the 5th generation to use it. I bought new hardware, drilled new holes, installed new slats, made special buntings, etc., etc., etc.

The OP should return the people's money, or if there is a recommended manufacturer's "fix" the OP should provide that. Brand new cribs can be purchased from anywhere from 99.00 up to 500.00 or more. That was an expensive used crib. I don't blame the purchasers for wanting their money back.

 

[Zigner]

I agree that the crib probably should not have been sold at all

Well, good, since the law prohibits it and all...

However, there really are fixes to make older cribs safe for use. I used a 100 year old crib for my child. I wanted her to be the 5th generation to use it. I bought new hardware, drilled new holes, installed new slats, made special buntings, etc., etc., etc.

But, that doesn't make the crib legal to sell.

The OP should return the people's money, or if there is a recommended manufacturer's "fix" the OP should provide that. Brand new cribs can be purchased from anywhere from 99.00 up to 500.00 or more.

Agreed, but also be aware that the buyer has no obligation to accept the offer of a "fix"

 

[LdiJ]

Well, good, since the law prohibits it and all...



But, that doesn't make the crib legal to sell.



Agreed, but also be aware that the buyer has no obligation to accept the offer of a "fix"

Of course not....I was also making the point that 150.00 was quite "pricey" for a used crib.

 

[DNA2]

I would return the money since the crib was not to be resold. Since the recall I've immobilized one of our cribs as well as a few for some friends of ours. I used either the free immobilizer kits through the manufacturer or I spent about $8.00 on the hardware. It doesn't take long but even if you were to add an immobilizer yourself, the crib still couldn't be resold.

OP were you the original owner of the crib? If so you may be able to recoup some of your costs and get a refund or a store credit. I know several people who returned cribs they purchased years ago. Two were from Babies R Us and one was from Target. None had receipts. All three were given store credit for their cribs. You do not need a store receipt to return a recalled crib to the retailer. If the retailer refuses to provide a remedy, contact CPSC and they will contact the retailer.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

From the link the OP posted: Beginning June 28, 2011, all cribs manufactured and sold (including resale) must comply with new and improved federal safety standards. The new rules, which apply to full-size and non full-size cribs, prohibit the manufacture or sale of traditional drop-side rail cribs, strengthen crib slats and mattress supports, improve the quality of hardware and require more rigorous testing.

It stands to reason that one should not do what is prohibited by law.

Thus, the crib standards apply to
owners and operators of child care
facilities, family child care homes, and
places of public accommodation such as
hotels and motels, as well as to
manufacturers, distributors, and
retailers of cribs.

I missed where OP states they are a retail business.

 

[DNA2]

The standards apply to retailers as well as consumers.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr11/cribfinal.pdf

Section 104(c) of the CPSIA
specifies that the crib standards will
cover used as well as new cribs. The
crib standards will apply to anyone who
manufactures, distributes, or contracts
to sell a crib; to child care facilities,
family child care homes, and others
holding themselves out to be
knowledgeable about cribs; to anyone
who leases, sublets, or otherwise places
a crib in the stream of commerce; and
to owners and operators of places of
public accommodation affecting
commerce.

 

[Zigner]

Of course not....I was also making the point that 150.00 was quite "pricey" for a used crib.

Oh, heck yeah - no disagreement about that!

 

[Zigner]

It doesn't take long but even if you were to add an immobilizer yourself, the crib still couldn't be resold.

Actually, if it's an approved immobilizer device provided by the manufacturer, you sure could resell it.

 

[DNA2]

Actually, if it's an approved immobilizer device provided by the manufacturer, you sure could resell it.

Zigner I disagree because an added CPSC approved immobilizer may not meet the new crib standards.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr11/cribfinal.pdf (p81772)

They also requested that the final rule include descriptions of how to fix cribs that fail a particular requirement (i.e., retrofit), as a way to limit the number of new cribs that must be purchased. These comments mentioned retrofits to handle drop-side cribs in particular:

Section 104(c) of the CPSIA requires child care centers to provide cribs that comply with the new crib standards once they are in effect. The standards not only prohibit traditional drop-sides, but they also have complex requirements, such as those for hardware, that make it difficult to determine whether an existing crib would meet the new standards without testing that individual crib. Because the crib would be destroyed in the process of testing, it is impossible to test each crib. Therefore, we cannot provide methods to check existing cribs for compliance with the CPSC’s new crib standards. We also note that retrofits that would be appropriate for a recall might not be sufficient to meet the requirements of the new standards. For example, manufacturers have offered immobilizers in the past to address drop-side hazards on recalled cribs. This retrofit would not be sufficient to meet the crib standards. An immobilizer merely covers up part of the drop-side hardware and makes the drop-side unusable while in place, but it would not prevent a user from removing the retrofit and using the drop-side again.

http://www.cpsc.gov/onsafety/2011/06/the-new-crib-standard-questions-and-answers/

"Note that a drop side crib, even with an immobilizer installed, will not meet the new CPSC crib standards."

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The standards apply to retailers as well as consumers.

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr11/cribfinal.pdf

Section 104(c) of the CPSIA
specifies that the crib standards will
cover used as well as new cribs. The
crib standards will apply to anyone who
manufactures, distributes, or contracts
to sell a crib; to child care facilities,
family child care homes, and others
holding themselves out to be
knowledgeable about cribs; to anyone
who leases, sublets, or otherwise places
a crib in the stream of commerce; and
to owners and operators of places of
public accommodation affecting
commerce.

I suggest you read the direction of the punctuation outlining whom is covered.

The
crib standards will apply to anyone who
manufactures, distributes, or contracts
to sell a crib; to child care facilities,
family child care homes

and others
holding themselves out to be
knowledgeable about cribs; to anyone
who leases, sublets, or otherwise places
a crib in the stream of commerce; and
to owners and operators of places of
public accommodation affecting
commerce.

OP, in their posting indicates they were not crib experts, they were just selling an old crib.

The couple pointed out to us yesterday that they'd learned via this link...

Neither my wife nor I, nor this other couple, had any clue as to this new regulation when our sale occurred.