life insurance

[insanesmooch]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

My question is similar to one asked previously, but I want to see what may be said for this case. My husband is divroced. In the decree, it says he is to keep $75,000 in life insurance on his ex. A few years ago, he changed the beneficiary to his children. I wasn't married to him at that time, so it wasn't a big deal to me. Now that we are married, I am wondering what can happen if he dies and she is not in line to receive insurance money. I'm not sure if it matters, but she has not followed the decree either. She did not pay her share of the IRS debt they had and she did not pay for a car that ended up repo-ed. My now husband payed all of that. She is also supposed to have a $25,000 life insurance policy on him which we are sure she does not have. She has been remarried for almost 8 years.
My husband is over 50 so insurance is getting more expenisive. It may be more costly to have two policies (one for me and one for the ex). Will I be okay if we have a policy for like $150,000 and I just plan on giving her half of it? Or will she be able to drag me through court? Could she sue for his half of the house as payment? If she can sue, can I show that she wasn't living up to the decree either-even though I'm not an involved party, could I do it on behalf of my husband?
Currently, we have no contact at all with her. She is money hungry so I know that upon his death she would come with her hand out. But while he is living, she would be too afraid to even ask for the proof of insurance because I don't think she can prove she holds any on him and she knows he could take her to court for the other items she did not pay.
Any advice will be helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[ceara19]

What EXACTLY does the court order say? If he is supposed to keep a life insurance policy with HER as the beneficiary and he has named the children instead, he is already violating the order and risking leaving you with HUGE legal issues to deal with when he dies (provided he dies before her).

 

[insanesmooch]

What EXACTLY does the court order say? If he is supposed to keep a life insurance policy with HER as the beneficiary and he has named the children instead, he is already violating the order and risking leaving you with HUGE legal issues to deal with when he dies (provided he dies before her).

I don't have it front of me, but it basically says that he has the keep the $75,000 policy with her as beneficiary. Apparently, there is no end date (like after remarriage).
What can she do in suing for the money? Like can she sue for half of the amount of the house (this is a house my husband and I just bought).? Can she sue for everything that has his name on it up to the $75,000? Will it matter, once he has passed, that she violated the order by not having the policy on him, not paying for the car, and not paying the IRS. She also forged his name off the loan for the home they had together. He does not want to take her to court over her violations because it would further strain his relationship with their children.

 

[fairisfair]

I don't have it front of me, but it basically says that he has the keep the $75,000 policy with her as beneficiary. Apparently, there is no end date (like after remarriage).
What can she do in suing for the money? Like can she sue for half of the amount of the house (this is a house my husband and I just bought).? Can she sue for everything that has his name on it up to the $75,000? Will it matter, once he has passed, that she violated the order by not having the policy on him, not paying for the car, and not paying the IRS. She also forged his name off the loan for the home they had together. He does not want to take her to court over her violations because it would further strain his relationship with their children.

So the policy is on HIM then not on her as you stated in your first post.

There really is no way to answer your questions without knowing what the court order states.

 

[moburkes]

Yes, your first post appears to have inaccurately described your problem. If the decree states that he is to maintain a life insurance policy on HIMSELF with his EX as the beneficiary, and you are also trying to protect yourself if he dies before you, then you don't have many options.

He is past the age where his current insurance company will allow him to increase the size of the current policy.

He should not, in any way, shape, form, or fashion disobey the court order. Just because his EX is an idiot, is no reason for him to be an idiot as well (or for you to encourage it).

All he can do is apply for another policy. How much longer will you need to rely on his income? A term policy is relatively inexpensive, as compared to a whole life policy.

 

[Gevalia]

Regardless of whether his ex is also in contempt, your husband remains responsible for what he was ordered to do. If she violated the order, let the car get repossessed, or committed tax fraud, she can answer to the judge for that. None of those things negate your husband's own responsibilities. He cannot say "well, I violated the order because she.....". They are separate issues.

If, by court order, she is supposed to receive $75k upon your husband's death, he'd better darn well make sure that happens, or have the order modified.

 

[insanesmooch]

Ok, I see I said he had to keep the policy on his ex. I did mean that he was to keep it on himself with her as the beneficiary.
Anyway, he has been able to change the amount of the policy (he did this year). But I think what he has now is expensive. He says it's term, but I do not think that it is.
I'm not encouraging him to not have the insurance. I'm not stupid enough to want the trouble after he is gone; that is why I am the one asking the questions on here. Even when he changed the beneficiaries from her to the kids I was telling him it was a bad idea. That's why I want to know what she can sue for if he won't get this cleared up.
I ran a new idea by my husband today. What if we get one policy for $150,000 and put her as getting 50% and me getting 50%? The decree does not say it specifically remain one policy solely for the ex. That way if something came up to where we were asked to provide proof and a policy number, there would be one. I only personally want enough money to make sure the house is paid for. I'm 20 years younger than my husband and his ex so chances are I will out live them (but we never know what will happen). I will likely have working years ahead of me when he is gone or a big retirement saved.
So will one policy work to satisfy the decree when it does not specifiy that it must be one policy solely for her? Or if he does not get in gear and get things straight, what can she sue his estate for (and possibly get)?

 

[ceara19]

Ok, I see I said he had to keep the policy on his ex. I did mean that he was to keep it on himself with her as the beneficiary.
Anyway, he has been able to change the amount of the policy (he did this year). But I think what he has now is expensive. He says it's term, but I do not think that it is.
I'm not encouraging him to not have the insurance. I'm not stupid enough to want the trouble after he is gone; that is why I am the one asking the questions on here. Even when he changed the beneficiaries from her to the kids I was telling him it was a bad idea. That's why I want to know what she can sue for if he won't get this cleared up.
I ran a new idea by my husband today. What if we get one policy for $150,000 and put her as getting 50% and me getting 50%? The decree does not say it specifically remain one policy solely for the ex. That way if something came up to where we were asked to provide proof and a policy number, there would be one. I only personally want enough money to make sure the house is paid for. I'm 20 years younger than my husband and his ex so chances are I will out live them (but we never know what will happen). I will likely have working years ahead of me when he is gone or a big retirement saved.
So will one policy work to satisfy the decree when it does not specifiy that it must be one policy solely for her? Or if he does not get in gear and get things straight, what can she sue his estate for (and possibly get)?

It would be best to keep a separate policy, just for her. If he dies tomorrow, she could sue his estate and win.

I think it would be worth a consult with a local attorney to see about modifying the decree. She may even agree to drop the life insurance requirement in exchange for agreeing (in writing, of course) that they are even on the IRS debt and the vehicle debt. If she's not agreeable, he can file a show cause for contempt at the same time as the modification.

 

[moburkes]

Actually, Ceara, what she has described is fine. Another way, which is probably acceptable to the life insurance company, is the name 2 bene's, the ex and the current spouse, with specific $ amounts of $75k each, instead of the generic 50% each.

 

[ceara19]

Actually, Ceara, what she has described is fine. Another way, which is probably acceptable to the life insurance company, is the name 2 bene's, the ex and the current spouse, with specific $ amounts of $75k each, instead of the generic 50% each.

Personally, I'd go for the modification. The marriage has been over for quite some time now, the kids are all grown up and the ex defaulted on her portion of the marital debt.

 

[nextwife]

Good idea.

I still don't understand why the poster would not want to buy a supplimental policy, just to insure she is beneficiary and that that life insurance stays in place. If she has her own policy against him, that she pays premium on, that cannot be touched, nor can he ever, no matter what happens, change the beneficiary, it's not even an asset of his!

But I agree that she should consider a larger policy naming both as ebenficaries. Once you go above $100,000, the additional cost for more coverage on the same policy is fairly moderate.

 

[insanesmooch]

Thanks for the advice. One reason I didn't want a second policy is because the quotes I obtained said that two $75,000 policies would be like $325-$350 a year while one $150,000 would be $425-$450.
Anyway, my husband was finally convinced to call the lawyer who handled the divorce. He says that since the ex has been remarried for so long (since '00) and since she stopped paying on the insurance she was supposed to have with my husband as beneficiary ("01) that we can pay a lawyer and court fee and have it modified. The lawyer actually said we didn't really need to worry about it, but if it made us feel better we could have it modified so it is official. So, my husband is getting all the info he needs now. I'd rather pay the fees and travel now than deal with a mess later.