Mis Matched New AC and Air Handler

[Clipper965]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I bought a bank owned home and closed last month. While we were awaiting closing someone stole the outside portion of the AC and the bank replaced the outside unit and even put in a new thermo but left the original air handler alone which does not work. I brought in a serviceman and he said this whole setup is illegal. Do I have any recourse after the closing in asking the bank to replace the air handler given the law was broken by them not replacing or am I up the creek?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[LindaP777]

What did your real estate agent say when you told him/her? This is why they get paid the big buck, let them work for it.

 

[Clipper965]

She.....

Called the Title Co and listing agent. IT was a very hard closing because the first loan officer at the bank made a mess out of my case and his supervisor had to fix it and we had to do it by the end of May. The title company gave me the name of the contractor who claims all he was paid to do was install the outside unit and it was working when he tried it. I know he is lying because I checked the AC after the new outside unit was installed and there was no air coming out of the vents.

 

[LindaP777]

Again, call your agent and let them work on it.

 

[justalayman]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I bought a bank owned home and closed last month. While we were awaiting closing someone stole the outside portion of the AC and the bank replaced the outside unit and even put in a new thermo but left the original air handler alone which does not work. I brought in a serviceman and he said this whole setup is illegal. Do I have any recourse after the closing in asking the bank to replace the air handler given the law was broken by them not replacing or am I up the creek?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

why do you believe the air handler had to be replaced (both legally and to make the system work)?

Just what do you believe is illegal?

why doesn't the air handler work?

Did you have the house inspected and if so, what did your inspector say about the AC system?

I know he is lying because I checked the AC after the new outside unit was installed and there was no air coming out of the vents.

the outside unit has nothing to do with the air coming out of the vents.

 

[HomeGuru]

why do you believe the air handler had to be replaced (both legally and to make the system work)?

Just what do you believe is illegal?

why doesn't the air handler work?

Did you have the house inspected and if so, what did your inspector say about the AC system?

the outside unit has nothing to do with the air coming out of the vents.

**A: good questions.

 

[Clipper965]

Inspection

I have an AC MAN I trust come to look at it and when he saw the mis matched AC and air handler he said that is not up to code and illegal and the county inspector's office will verify and they did. I discovered all this after the closing. I now know the bank/seller entrusted replacing the AC to the listing realtor and they likely hired a non licensed contractor to do on the cheap. The current OLD air handler does not work because the previous owner it appears was bitter over losing the house and destroyed the air handlers circuit board.

why do you believe the air handler had to be replaced (both legally and to make the system work)?

Just what do you believe is illegal?

why doesn't the air handler work?

Did you have the house inspected and if so, what did your inspector say about the AC system?

the outside unit has nothing to do with the air coming out of the vents.

 

[justalayman]

I have an AC MAN I trust come to look at it and when he saw the mis matched AC and air handler he said that is not up to code and illegal and the county inspector's office will verify and they did. I discovered all this after the closing. I now know the bank/seller entrusted replacing the AC to the listing realtor and they likely hired a non licensed contractor to do on the cheap. The current OLD air handler does not work because the previous owner it appears was bitter over losing the house and destroyed the air handlers circuit board.

Oh, so now you are saying the AC unit and the air handler are mismatched. Well, if all the AC guy did was replace the condensor unit, the old evaporator coil is still in the old air handler so if it was mismatched before, it is mismatched now. There is not necessarily any reason to replace the evap coil or the air handler just because the condensor unit was replaced.



and what your inspector claims is against code for mismatch of some component is beyond me. There are no code compliance issues with the size, functioning, match between air handler CFM capacity, evap coil tonnage or condensor unit tonnage. They simply are not code issues.


If you want me to tell you what happens with an under or oversize air handler compared to the building requirements is used or compared to the ac unit itself, or how you can intentionally use different sizes of evap coils as compared to the the condensor unit to cause the system to perform differently for different climates I will be glad to teach you but simply claiming a mismatched unit is a code violation is just not reality.



so, when did the old owner damage the circuit board for the air handler; before or after your inspector checked out the house?

 

[Clipper965]

Not Sure

According to the neighbor the house had been empty for over one year. 3 weeks before closing the outside AC unit was stolen. The realtor had another installed and the contractor claimed after the AC was working. I Happened to be driving by the day the outside unit was installed and went the next morning to test the AC ( I had a key from the realtor during the closing process ) and the outside unit did run but not the inside air handler. I called my AC guy who looked inside the air handler and said the circuit board wires were cut by somebody and he was sure it was done on puropose. He says in these X foreclosed homes he sees all kinds of things done by bitter x owners and this is common.

 

[justalayman]

so, when did you have the house inspected and what did your inspector say about the air handler at the time?

and if some wires were cut, they get spliced to repair them. Cut wires does not equal a bad board. Not saying the board isn't bad but simply cut wires is an easy fix.

 

[Clipper965]

Inspector Says Illegal

This is what the county inspector gave me:


Equipment Mismatching has been Clarified by the
Florida Building Commission
In January the Florida Building Commission (FBC) issued a declaratory statement, putting on record, what most HVAC contractors already knew. Mixing different manufacturers and equipment does not meet the intent of Florida’s Energy Code.
A formal request for interpretation was sought on a situation where an outdoor unit was being replaced with a manufacturer different from the remaining indoor unit. Would this be a mismatch or would it be allowed
by the code? . . . .
The declaratory statement (DCA07-Dec-l72) ruled that these circumstances constitute a re-placement, not a repair. “Section 13-607.1ABC.3.1.1, Florida Building Code requires verification of equipment efficiency to demonstrate compliance with U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) certification requirements. Outdoor and indoor units that are not designed to be operated together must still meet DOE standard. If the system does not meet the standard, it is considered to be mismatched and does not meet code.”
This section of the Energy Code does identify conditions which would be used to allow the mixing of manufacturer’s equipment. In lieu of an ARI certification, the contractor could obtain a rating from a recognized independent laboratory or a Florida registered engineer. From an expense standpoint these avenues may not be cost effective unless it is a large project.
The problem faced by our industry is that we will not be able to do business on “change-outs” as we have in the past. Most older split systems are going to require a complete equipment replacement in order to meet the intent of the Energy Code and this is going to dramatically increase the price to consumers. This was one of the reasons that ARI and a number of equipment manufacturers fought against a national 13 SEER rating a couple of years ago.
State and national standards for energy are ultimately painting our industry into a corner. In two years contractors will have to begin changing both pieces of equipment (anyway) as it relates to R-22, because only R410A equipment will be manufactured. . . . .
RACCA recognizes that our contractor members face a difficult task in explaining these new change-out requirements to consumers who might otherwise hire a contractor who will not pull a permit or hire an unlicensed individual.. . .

My AC guy is nervous touching the system. He suspects the bank will now install a new air handler as the county inspector told us if the outside unit was installed by a non licensed contractor, and he suspect was, then they are guilty of a first degree misdemeanor.

 

[justalayman]

A mismatched evaporator coil and condenser unit in itself is not illegal. There are allowances in the code for that and as long as the combined efficiency of the unit in whole is certified by an acceptable professional, it is acceptable. I would suspect that your system was not certified and that is what makes it illegal, not the mismatch itself.

Next, the air handler is not directly involved in the efficiency rating the code is concerned with. It is a separate issue.

with all that aside, the biggest problem is: this is all post closing. Did you sign paperwork at closing stating the house was in an acceptable condition? You claim you were aware the AC did not work the day after the condenser unit was replaced so one would expect you to have made that an issue at closing if it had not been completed. Was there a pre-closing inspection where you deemed the house acceptable?

Another problem is for the AC guy to somewhat properly install the condenser unit, the air handler must be operating but let's just accept he didn't do a proper install. That leaves this as a huge problem:

I Happened to be driving by the day the outside unit was installed and went the next morning to test the AC ( I had a key from the realtor during the closing process ) and the outside unit did run but not the inside air handler

who did you notify? Why did you close with an AC system that wasn't working when presumably you expected it to be working.

 

[Clipper965]

County Inspector

Looked at my AC hookup and wrote it up as illegal installation. I need to know who to blame. The realtor who hired this crook? I am still living in my empty old house because I have no AC at my new one.


The reator keeps passing me off to the contractor who may or may not be legit.

 

[justalayman]

the RE agent was acting on behalf of the bank and the HVAC guy was ultimately working for the bank so your argument is with the bank. Neither the RE agent or the HVAC guy did any work for you so they owe you nothing.

you never did answer the question about why you closed on the house knowing the AC was not working.

 

[Clipper965]

News

They were supposed to do a walk thru with me before closing and did not. The realtor sent in a new tech after admiting the one who installed the Outside unit was worthless and it is running now but still with a mis-matched air handler, they now want me to sign a release of some kind.