Miss Ann

[almost]

What's right

Hi, I'm in Tennessee. I filed for divorce in March of 2003. Well after the custody battle, (We have two children eight and eleven now), we had our "final" court date May 17 of 2004. The outcome was that I have custody of the kids. They are with me during the school year, and suppose to go to him every weekend. During the summer the kids are with him and see me every other weekend. On paper, it looks like he has the kids almost 40 percent of the time, so the papers say that he will pay for the kids extra curricular activities to make up for that 10% difference in residential time. The papers also say that anytime he can't be with the kids during his regular residential time with them that I get first right of refusal. I would never and have never refused of course. So, since May when the divorce was supposedly final (I'll explain) my daughter has been with me most or all of most weekends. My Son has been with me many weekends when he was on paper to go to Dad. That of course is what I want. The kid's Dad travels for a living, although last summer it was very limited, so that he could work from home, and be with the kids. He is normally out of town Tuesday thru Friday, with occassional really long trips. I am a teacher, and work the same hours the kids go to school, and of course have the summer months off to be with them, so realistically, the kids will be with me during the summer, because he has to work. Last summer, I was still working as an Engineer and working during the summer, so 2005 will be my first summer to be home.

I am not getting child support, and the financial burden is killing us. Anyway, I have not yet seen final divorce papers, and have an attorney I can not get in touch with. He fell in the bottle. So, last week I went to the court house to see what is filed there. The clerk said, "Hunny, you're still married". Screammmmmmmmm!!!!!! Well, the judge looked directly at me the day of the final court date, and said, "you are divorced. You don't even have to wait until the papers go through." Anyway, that's not what I'm worried about. It's that I just know that we should be getting child support and that the attorneys are trying to fiddle with the papers to make it look like equal time, and it's just not realistic. The ex husband told me that he would see the kids in state custody before he paid child support for the rest of his life, and I'll admit I believed him. He did a lot of things to try to make that happen, and I was very afraid of him. I'm not so afraid of him anymore, and I know I should have fought for everything to be put correctly on the papers to begin with, but I knew if we put it on there somehow so that he didn't have to pay child support he would eventually leave us alone. Also, now he can't come back and try to prove in a million nutty ways that I'm an unfit Mother. My children make straight A's in school, and are very happy little christian people. Their friends live here at my house it seems like, and I know all their parents. I also teach highschool math, which doesn't make me a good person, but does enable me to keep the same hours as the kids, and understand what the heck is going on in the education system.

So, I guess my question is. Knowing that the attorneys still have not gotten the papers through, six months past the final date, should I let them go through this way. Would a judge even let them go through with no child support ordered. Or should I leave things alone until summer comes and the kids are with me all during that time. We are dying with a thirty thousand a year salary, but I'm sure moving to teaching was the right thing to do. Someone has to pay extra attention to the kids, or they'll turn out like those hudlums I teach at the highschool. I do do some other things on the side that will bring good money later, but I really don't think that has anything to do with it. I'm lost and confused about what to do, and have an attorney who stays drunk so often that I can't get anything out of him. I'd like to ditch him and get all this behind me, but I can't afford to start a big expensive mess with a new attorney. Frankly, I think I could go to court with this on my own. I've been there enough times in the last two years to know how it works. What should I do? Should I go back right now, and get child support or wait until summer? I don't know the rules about all this, and don't really trust the court system. So often what seems logical to me is easily twisted by attorneys. Also, I know that my attorney has goofed up so many things that he does not want to show his face in front of this judge again. The judge wanted to know a year ago what was taking so long.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Report your attorney to the bar association. The judge may have made the divorce final but the papers still need to be filed so they can be signed.
You can still file for modification of child support if the circumstances change and they have. You are not divorced and nothing is final. You might need to get another attorney or see if your court system has assistance for self help. Your husband may not agree to child support but will have to pay if court ordered, playing games with custody and visitation to avoid child support doesn't go over well with the judge. If you get child support awarded, make sure you go through CSE to it is deducted from his pay automatically.

 

[almost]

Thank you for replying

But if I go back right now, might I have to worry that I'm just as guilty for helping him to avoid child support, by going along with such an illogical plan to begin with. I knew in May that I would be making the transition to teaching. Two days before we went to the final date, I accepted a scholarship for my master's degree that was contingent upon my teaching Highschool math in a high needs county for three years. I guess the point is I knew it made no sence, but didn't push it hard enough, because I was afraid he'd somehow get custody of the kids if I didn't go along. He really pulled some crazy stuff.

 

[cablekatie]

Just Do It

But if I go back right now, might I have to worry that I'm just as guilty for helping him to avoid child support, by going along with such an illogical plan to begin with. I knew in May that I would be making the transition to teaching. Two days before we went to the final date, I accepted a scholarship for my master's degree that was contingent upon my teaching Highschool math in a high needs county for three years. I guess the point is I knew it made no sence, but didn't push it hard enough, because I was afraid he'd somehow get custody of the kids if I didn't go along. He really pulled some crazy stuff.

Follow the advice given you. Or do you want to stay married out of fear for what ifs what ifs??? You're letting fear of what your ex or should be ex husband could or couldn't do. You need to get those papers signed, and file a Child Support case with CSE. And then...get on with your life!

 

[almost]

Bite your tongue

I won't stay married to the fool. When I said go back, I meant go back to court for child support. It looks pretty cut and dried to me, but you never know what will happen when you put your life in the hands of the court, and it is scary.

So, I've written up the modification to the parenting plan and am going forward now. I'm still just a little confused at the order of things, because there's really no final parenting plan to modify. We agreed upon what to do in court, but you know the papers are still in limbo. However, last week after I went to see the clerk, I went to see my intoxicated attorney. He's gone so far down hill that he is now "practicing" from his home. His secretary lives in the upstairs of his house, so I found her, looked over the current version of the papers, said to send them to the opposing attorney, and if he doesn't want to sign them, then we should go back to court now. I asked that this be finalized within a week, which is up now. So, I don't yet know the out come. But, I do wonder if there is any benefit to waiting for those final papers, and then filing a revision to the Parenting plan, or if I should just go ahead and plow right into things, fire the attorney, report him, file the revision to the not really finalized plan, and just let "whoever" correct me along the way. Thank you so much for your advice. I really appreciate it more than you know. I know what the right thing is to do, but it always helps to hear someone else say it.

 

[cablekatie]

Well, the judge looked directly at me the day of the final court date, and said, "you

I think you need to focus on getting the divorce finalized. Hire another lawyer to sort this out. Then file a motion to modify. And go to Child Support Enforcement and let them go after your EX for the child support. If he isn't working under the table, his wages can be garnishe-ed. It maybe as simple as having the papers signed and delivered to the courthouse. Maybe even as "easy" as hand delivering the divorce papers to the EX's attorney, and taking your copy to the courthouse and filing it.

I'm sure if I'm wrong about any of this, somebody will straighten it out in the morning. I know this has got to be disconcerting to you...to say the least. Does your husband know you're still legally married? Regardless, you do need to report your attorney.

Good luck

 

[almost]

My husband! Still screaming.

The Ex doesn't know about my visit to the couthouse. He does know that the papers are still floating around unsigned, because there are things on there that he is still disagreeing with. He feels that he should take the tax deduction on one of the kids even though he only has them a great deal less than 50% of the time, and he's not even ordered to child support. I did tell him though that if the papers hadn't been sent to the courthouse within a week we'd just have to go back to court to sort it out.

It seems to me that we should go back to court right now with the unfinalized papers instead of them going through, then changing. I am terrified of letting him know that I'm going to go back for child support. He's just started to leave us alone. The kids are here all the time now when they're suppose to be with him, but that'll change when he gets wind of this. That was a lot of my hessitation. I thought maybe I should let him continue to disappear for a while, so that when we go back for the child support there is no question whatsoever, for the judge. Not that it matters I guess. Even the way the papers read now, he doesn't have but almost 40% residential time with the kids, and whats on the papers he can't physically do while travelling. Yes, it sounds like I need to go get another attorney. I really want to do this myself, and save the money. The last thing I need to do is spend more on this.

 

[LdiJ]

The Ex doesn't know about my visit to the couthouse. He does know that the papers are still floating around unsigned, because there are things on there that he is still disagreeing with. He feels that he should take the tax deduction on one of the kids even though he only has them a great deal less than 50% of the time, and he's not even ordered to child support. I did tell him though that if the papers hadn't been sent to the courthouse within a week we'd just have to go back to court to sort it out.

It seems to me that we should go back to court right now with the unfinalized papers instead of them going through, then changing. I am terrified of letting him know that I'm going to go back for child support. He's just started to leave us alone. The kids are here all the time now when they're suppose to be with him, but that'll change when he gets wind of this. That was a lot of my hessitation. I thought maybe I should let him continue to disappear for a while, so that when we go back for the child support there is no question whatsoever, for the judge. Not that it matters I guess. Even the way the papers read now, he doesn't have but almost 40% residential time with the kids, and whats on the papers he can't physically do while travelling. Yes, it sounds like I need to go get another attorney. I really want to do this myself, and save the money. The last thing I need to do is spend more on this.

I honestly have to agree that another attorney is probably in your best interest. I also am unsure whether your best strategy is to re-open everything right now, or to just let the divorce get finalized, and then go for a modification after next summer, when you will have proven that he hasn't significantly exercised any of his parenting time.

You are right though that once you file for child support he is at minimum going to insist on his parenting time, and at maximum try to make your life miserable....which is another reason why you really NEED to have a decent attorney.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

If he hasn't signed the parenting agreement, NOTHING is in place, nothing to modify, so no problem with going back to court for something he failed to sign.
Write up the new agreement based on what has actually occured.
You have custody, you take the deduction for the children and let him know you are planning on doing that, also put that in the agreement.
Attach to your new agreement which will include child support, medical insurance,sxtra school costs, payments for child care, specifics re child care, 1st right of refusal, a log of the agreed to visitation schedule and the actual visitation taken since it was used as residential custody time in order to avoid child support. Include any new proposed schedule of visitation. Use his actual visitation time to calculate child support. Compute the cost of the child care you provided to him based upon his fraudulant actions in his contract, also compute the amount of child support for that time if he had also acted in good faith.
Recind in writing the former contract you signed in good faith since he has failed to honor sign it. Serve him with a signed copy of the new agreement and file it with the court along with the exhibits. Get a court date.
This will tic him off, but what can he do? The rope was there and see what he did with it? He can't tell the court that he actually has that amount of residential time, or that he will even abide by the courts order, because he hasn't. Also include the fact that he wants you to LIE to the IRS. Once he has to pay child support, he may see his children more, but he will still be paying child support and child care expenses.

 

[almost]

Smokin!

Thank you so much for all that direction. That makes perfect sence. Why has my goofy attorney not done all this. The first letter I'm writing is to release him from responsibility of this case. If I get in too deep, I'll go hire another attorney. I do know that I want to have all this new documentation in line, and my plan clear, so that when I first present the new plan to the Ex, he'll not have time to concoct some crazy story to stop this. He has already gone to court twice and told the judge that has a new job, and won't be travelling anymore. That was a year and a half ago, and he was still trying to get custody of the kids, and he's still not changed jobs, not that I want him to.

If I file a letter recinding the entire parenting plan, might he not be able to fight for custody of the kids again. He won't be able to go back to his bogus stories about my being unfit, because he's already agreed I'd have custody, at least in court, just not on paper. Another question is this. Last summer he was able to work from home for the most part. He travelled very little. If he says he's going to be able to do that again this year, then might the judge allow that the kids be with him while he's suppose to be working at home, instead of staying here where I'm not working during the summer? After I start this new ball rolling, he won't slide anymore than he has to on his visitation time, so I really don't want to screw this up. I do know that if I am quiet, summer will come, and I'll have them the whole time while he travels, then this would be rock solid. Am I just being a chicken, or isn't this a valid concern. Right now he's only had six months to slack on the visitation, and it gets bigger and for longer periods of time every month.

I wouldn't want the judge to throw out everything we've done so far, and us have to start all over with this very messy divorce.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

SIZZZZZZZ HOT!
Act now, don't put it off, you have proof of his failure to be truthful with the judge or to follow the plans or orders. Remember it will be more difficult for him to prove big change in circumstances to modify, since he has already proved himself to be a liar and a fraud.
Since he has never followed up on his job changes in 1.5 years, don't expect him to do it this summer. Change the old proposed summer schedule to a standard visitation schedule allow him a graduated change over time, to prove himself, allow 2 consecutive weeks the first summer with normal everyother weekend visitationm except for when you might opt to take a vacation with the children, this allows each of you some quality vacation time during the summer. He notifies you of which two weeks he wants and an alternate date should there be a scheduling conflict, by a certian date like by April 15. If he fails to request the time, it is then up to you to grant it or not. Same for holidays, everyother one, this is visitation and not meant to lessen his child support activity. Add an optional week the next year, with the same rules... up to 6 consecutive weeks. Don't forget Summer camp for the children or time spent with grandparents.
Be fair and firm.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you so much for all that direction. That makes perfect sence. Why has my goofy attorney not done all this. The first letter I'm writing is to release him from responsibility of this case. If I get in too deep, I'll go hire another attorney. I do know that I want to have all this new documentation in line, and my plan clear, so that when I first present the new plan to the Ex, he'll not have time to concoct some crazy story to stop this. He has already gone to court twice and told the judge that has a new job, and won't be travelling anymore. That was a year and a half ago, and he was still trying to get custody of the kids, and he's still not changed jobs, not that I want him to.

If I file a letter recinding the entire parenting plan, might he not be able to fight for custody of the kids again. He won't be able to go back to his bogus stories about my being unfit, because he's already agreed I'd have custody, at least in court, just not on paper. Another question is this. Last summer he was able to work from home for the most part. He travelled very little. If he says he's going to be able to do that again this year, then might the judge allow that the kids be with him while he's suppose to be working at home, instead of staying here where I'm not working during the summer? After I start this new ball rolling, he won't slide anymore than he has to on his visitation time, so I really don't want to screw this up. I do know that if I am quiet, summer will come, and I'll have them the whole time while he travels, then this would be rock solid. Am I just being a chicken, or isn't this a valid concern. Right now he's only had six months to slack on the visitation, and it gets bigger and for longer periods of time every month.

I wouldn't want the judge to throw out everything we've done so far, and us have to start all over with this very messy divorce.

That could happen. That is why I am not sure that you should go ahead and change everything now. He adamantly does not want to pay child support, therefore he WILL fight you on this. If you are going to change it, then I would change it to a more standard parenting arrangement. Every other weekend, half of the holidays, and half of the summer. He pays child support according to your state guidelines.

In fact, if you don't have a technical reason for wanting the divorce to be done and over with, then maybe you should consider just sitting on EVERYTHING until after next summer passes.

Realistically its probably going to end up being messy, no matter when you confront the issue...now or later. So you either do it now and get it over with sooner....or you do it after next summer when he has "hung" himself more thoroughly than he has now.

I need to add one thing. Since no judge has signed off on any orders regarding the tax exemption for the children the IRS regs rule. Dad cannot take the exemption. HOWEVER.....its possible that he will attempt to do so anyway for 2004. Therefore its very important that you file your tax return the very moment that you have your W2s and any other necessary documents. If you file first, you won't have to worry about any delays in your refund because he tried to take the exemption.

 

[almost]

Yes, I thought of that on the tax deduction. I had to do the same thing last year. The deduction wouldn't even do anything for him, but it will make about $4,000 difference to my pocket book.

I have another question. The Ex purgured himself several times on the stand, and admitted to TennCare fraud during deposition. The judge isn't aware of this. One of the things he did to purjure himself was this: Several years ago he was restrained from us, our house and me, for a year, because of domestic assault. Well the judge who handled that ordered him to a six month alcohol treatment program. When we asked him on the stand during divorce if he'd ever tried to stop drinking he said no. We asked if he'd been to the alcohol treatment program he said yes. Then during deposition he admitted he hadn't been to the alcohol treatment program at all.

TennCare is medical insurance here in TN for those who can't afford it. He somehow signed up our kids for this years ago, and wasn't paying for their medical even though his company was giving him almost $500 cash per month to do this.

The question is, can I use these things to get things done without it being called blackmail, or without being unethical. Or is it just juicy stuff for the judge?

 

[almost]

Wow, two different opinions.

Absolutely perfect. You guys have two different opinions. That wasn't sarcastic. It's good have some other brains scoot the mess around. One way is the safe route, and the other seems safe looking at the facts. I do know how this judge works a little by now though. He seems to be almost overly worried about doing the right thing. He's cautious, as he should be given the weight of his job. I wouldn't want it. But I have enough black and white on the dishonesty that it just can't be ignored, and can't be denied.

Yes, firm and fair. I have already rewritten the parenting plan, and it reflects almost exactly what you suggested rmet. I love your aggression. Everything in me is screaming to move on with it in that sort of manner, but I don't want to drag the kids through hell and all that uncertainty again either. The purjery was caught many times over during all the court dates, but my attorney didn't grab onto it. He told me it was because the judges expect people to lie during a divorce. I was absolutely honest to the letter the entire way through. I'm too chicken of being caught in a lie. I'd end up in jail, but goober over there seems to sail through life making it work.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, I thought of that on the tax deduction. I had to do the same thing last year. The deduction wouldn't even do anything for him, but it will make about $4,000 difference to my pocket book.

I have another question. The Ex purgured himself several times on the stand, and admitted to TennCare fraud during deposition. The judge isn't aware of this. One of the things he did to purjure himself was this: Several years ago he was restrained from us, our house and me, for a year, because of domestic assault. Well the judge who handled that ordered him to a six month alcohol treatment program. When we asked him on the stand during divorce if he'd ever tried to stop drinking he said no. We asked if he'd been to the alcohol treatment program he said yes. Then during deposition he admitted he hadn't been to the alcohol treatment program at all.

TennCare is medical insurance here in TN for those who can't afford it. He somehow signed up our kids for this years ago, and wasn't paying for their medical even though his company was giving him almost $500 cash per month to do this.

The question is, can I use these things to get things done without it being called blackmail, or without being unethical. Or is it just juicy stuff for the judge?

I would leave the TennCare issue alone at this point if it took place while you were together or if you ever took the kids to the doctor using that insurance. You could get dragged into that mess yourself. I hope you are now covering your kids under your plan.