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norm9838

Member
What is the name of your state? Indiana I am going into court on the 31st of March with contempt charges against my ex-girlfriend over visitation, specifically Thanksgiving.

Here is what I got. My daughter said I was not having her at Thanksgiving because she had made plans with her mother and stepdad for Thanksgiving day. Then her mother also told me that I could not have her because she had made plans. So consequently I was not allowed to pick her up.

Then she pretty much tried to refuse me at Christmas, her and my daughter both. Finally I told her and my daughter that I was coming to get her. So I picked her up and then I called my attorney and sat up an appointment. He told me not to return her when her or her mother said but I was to wait and let her mother come and get her on the time and date the papers stated.

Now our court date has been sat for the Thanksgiving issue. My daughter told me this weekend that her mother told her that I said I was coming to get her regardless on Thanksgiving and that I never showed up.

My daughter knows thats a lie. But I know her mother is going to go into court now and lie.

I decided after the Thanksgiving issue that I was hooking a tape up on my phone. I have my ex on tape at Christmas refusing me and telling me that I did not have a choice and that our daughter had plans during my time. She is also saying in the background while I was talking to my daughter that my daughter is almost 13 and old enough to make her own decision.

So here is my question. If I go into court and she lies, will I need to prove that she is a liar. Or will it just be cut and dry? He said, she said? I am tired of all of this.

Now everytime I have my daughter she always calls and I do not feel that I can not let her talk to her mother and then all I get is attitude. I had a problem with my daughter and her homework and told her to bring it back the next day when I would pick her up. Well guess what mom told her she did not have to and if I had a problem with it to take it up with her. She had 19 answers wrong and out of the 11 that were right she did not show her work so yet again she would of got an F.

Our papers state that we have joint custody with her being the primary caregiver. Doesn't that mean we have joint legal? So shouldn't I have the right to help my daughter with her homework and be a parent in every way possible. I tried to make her a dental appointment and was told I could only do it on my nights and that I could not take her out of school if that was the only time. I take care of all of her dental needs and up till this year all medical, even as far as if she was sick and needed to go.

Also can I request some form of mediation or counsel for all of these problems. If so does anyone know how much it would cost?

Please someone give me advice, I know i have an attorney but we are not scheduled to discuss whats going to go on until next week.
 


Eve

Junior Member
Call the court and ask to speak to someone in the family division. When you get someone on the phone, briefly tell them about the problems you are having with the visitation and custody, and ask if they could direct you on how to go about getting help with this. Tell them you do not want to get a lawyer involved because you cannot afford it.

You may be able to file a motion yourself for about $30 and meet with the judge or a court councelor with your ex and sit down and hammer things out. Get it in writing exactly what days of the week and what holidays your daughter will spend with you and even what time you will get her and return her to her mom. You should also be entitled to copies of all school report cards and progress reports and meetings with teachers if you so desire.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
norm9838 said:
What is the name of your state? Indiana I am going into court on the 31st of March with contempt charges against my ex-girlfriend over visitation, specifically Thanksgiving.

Here is what I got. My daughter said I was not having her at Thanksgiving because she had made plans with her mother and stepdad for Thanksgiving day. Then her mother also told me that I could not have her because she had made plans. So consequently I was not allowed to pick her up.

Then she pretty much tried to refuse me at Christmas, her and my daughter both. Finally I told her and my daughter that I was coming to get her. So I picked her up and then I called my attorney and sat up an appointment. He told me not to return her when her or her mother said but I was to wait and let her mother come and get her on the time and date the papers stated.

Now our court date has been sat for the Thanksgiving issue. My daughter told me this weekend that her mother told her that I said I was coming to get her regardless on Thanksgiving and that I never showed up.

My daughter knows thats a lie. But I know her mother is going to go into court now and lie.

I decided after the Thanksgiving issue that I was hooking a tape up on my phone. I have my ex on tape at Christmas refusing me and telling me that I did not have a choice and that our daughter had plans during my time. She is also saying in the background while I was talking to my daughter that my daughter is almost 13 and old enough to make her own decision.

So here is my question. If I go into court and she lies, will I need to prove that she is a liar. Or will it just be cut and dry? He said, she said? I am tired of all of this.

Now everytime I have my daughter she always calls and I do not feel that I can not let her talk to her mother and then all I get is attitude. I had a problem with my daughter and her homework and told her to bring it back the next day when I would pick her up. Well guess what mom told her she did not have to and if I had a problem with it to take it up with her. She had 19 answers wrong and out of the 11 that were right she did not show her work so yet again she would of got an F.

Our papers state that we have joint custody with her being the primary caregiver. Doesn't that mean we have joint legal? So shouldn't I have the right to help my daughter with her homework and be a parent in every way possible. I tried to make her a dental appointment and was told I could only do it on my nights and that I could not take her out of school if that was the only time. I take care of all of her dental needs and up till this year all medical, even as far as if she was sick and needed to go.

Also can I request some form of mediation or counsel for all of these problems. If so does anyone know how much it would cost?

Please someone give me advice, I know i have an attorney but we are not scheduled to discuss whats going to go on until next week.

Ok...please ignore the other poster because that advice is completely invalid for Indiana.

You need to be prepared to prove your allegations. Evidence and proof is the key in court. Either one of you can alledge anything that you like, but the judge is going to believe whichever one of you provides the most credible evidence regarding your allegations.

That means that you may need to request that the judge appoint a GAL (guardian ad litem) for your child. Ask your attorney about a GAL
 

norm9838

Member
Thanks for the imput that is what i was looking for. But answer me this what exactly is a gal. I have enough evidence on tape that if a person is willing to listen they will know and hear it for what it is. if someone would just listen. You can tell from the time my daughter picks up the phone that she is under extreme pressure. But don't misunderstand she is playing this for all it is worth. She had figured out how to work both of us to her advantage and its time it stopped. I am not trying to excommunicate my ex but enough is enough. This is not a win or lose situation it is the matter of the existance of a human being in a world that has gone wrong.

My daughters well being is my top priority and she is falling off the deep end.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Did you actually show up at Thanksgiving and were denied your daughter? Because if you did not then the court may not see it as you being denied your daughter but rather a case that you did not attempt to exercise your visitation.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Indiana is a one party state so you may legally record the conversations, however, after you began recording the conversations did mom ever admit that she denied you visitation on Thanksgiving? If she did then it might be easier to prove however, if she lies about Christmas and you can prove it, that will hep your case. You have an attorney, they should be answering your questions, we can assume you have joint legal custody but you need to be sure. Making appointments that fall on the other parents time without their knowledge or consent is not a good idea, but it may be an issue to be negotiated, such as transporting the child to and from the appointment or trading parenting time.

Your daughter is 13 yo, that is an age where they can be manipulative no matter whether or not they come from an intact family, so conflicts re plans and activities will always be a problem related to this developmental stage. It is one of the benefits of parenthood, it is never boring.:)
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Indiana is a one party state so you may legally record the conversations, however, after you began recording the conversations did mom ever admit that she denied you visitation on Thanksgiving? If she did then it might be easier to prove however, if she lies about Christmas and you can prove it, that will hep your case. You have an attorney, they should be answering your questions, we can assume you have joint legal custody but you need to be sure. Making appointments that fall on the other parents time without their knowledge or consent is not a good idea, but it may be an issue to be negotiated, such as transporting the child to and from the appointment or trading parenting time.

Your daughter is 13 yo, that is an age where they can be manipulative no matter whether or not they come from an intact family, so conflicts re plans and activities will always be a problem related to this developmental stage. It is one of the benefits of parenthood, it is never boring.:)

Its legal to tape in Indiana....however, unfortunately alot of Indiana judges won't listen to the tapes or allow them to be admitted into evidence.

To the OP:

A GAL (Guardian ad litem) is a court professional whose job it is to talk to the parents and child, outside of court, to try to help determine what is in the child's best interest. They are a representative for the child. A GAL may be someone who would be willing to listen to the tapes, even if the judge won't.
 
N

nicetryadmin

Guest
Stop already!!!

Eve said:
Call the court and ask to speak to someone in the family division. When you get someone on the phone, briefly tell them about the problems you are having with the visitation and custody, and ask if they could direct you on how to go about getting help with this. Tell them you do not want to get a lawyer involved because you cannot afford it.
Will you STOP with this "call the court and ask to speak to someone" crap. NOT all courts have these divisions. You simply can NOT call the court and ask them anything regarding legal matters, unless it deals with filing stuff (even that is limited) or you are filing a protective order, then they will assist you.

Clerks at the courts are not to give legal advice as they are not lawyers or judges. They are simply employees.

You may be able to file a motion yourself for about $30 and meet with the judge or a court councelor with your ex and sit down and hammer things out.
What in the hell are you talking about? Are you referring to mediation? IF so, then you're still wrong. Not all courts offer mediation and if they don't, then you are on your own and it's not cheap. Why are you even on this site? You are not even giving proper advice, so STOP. Oh wait...I hear it's ok for people like you to continue spewing this bullcrap. :rolleyes:

Get it in writing exactly what days of the week and what holidays your daughter will spend with you and even what time you will get her and return her to her mom. You should also be entitled to copies of all school report cards and progress reports and meetings with teachers if you so desire.
Wow...you got something right. Golf clap.
 

norm9838

Member
Let me just say this, this was not the first time that I was refused. I was told before Thanksgiving that on Thursday nights that my daughter was going to go to an afterschool program for kids to keep them off the street. I did not have a problem with the program but I wanted to pick her up afterwards.

Her mother and her both told me that I could not keep her from participating in this program. Like I said I did not have a problem with it. Then I was being told by my daughter right before Christmas that she was going shopping with stepdad for her mom on my Thursday and I said whoa wait a minute Thursday nights are my time. Her reply was to tell me that she would just say she had the school program and their was nothing I could do.

Next it was volleyball, there is not an athletic bone in my daughters body. In fact to quite honest she is lazy. But all of her practices fall on my weekends not her moms. Interesting isn't it. Then again I was told by my daughter that I could not stop her and yet again I do not have a problem with the sports or school activities but why is it always only during the time I have her.

In the summer it will be summer school. It has been every year so that way mom has a built in babysitter for part of the summer. I called the school and asked if she was required to be there and they told me it was voluntary on her mothers part, she was not required to be there. But won't it look bad on my part if I don't take her.

She lives 35 miles from me in another town. So that means driving her home and picking her up everyday. Which during the school year I am more than willing to do. For all these years I have done all of the driving, picking up and dropping off even though our papers said otherwise. I pick up at the start and she is suppose to pick her up and the end. But I did it so I could have my daughter.

Up until my ex got married I was able to have my daughter more then my scheduled visits and then stepdad stepped in and that all came to a halt.

I went to there house different times to exercise my visitation and found no one at home and then was told by her mother and her, we told you I had plans.

So did I drive there to get her on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, no, what just to find an empty house as in the past. They told me they would not be there. Then too even if I would have who would they believe me, or her. This is a very small one horse town with no police and I am sure the county would not have wasted there time driving there with me just to document it.

This is why I am going into court so the judge can explain to her that she signed the papers and needs to abide by them. I am suppose to get Thursday through Sunday and then the following Tuesday. We also have papers that stipulate holiday visits according to the county we live in. I also have summer visitation the same time each year. Which she is denying my credit for last year. I have the 1st through the 15th of June, July and August.

Its ironic because I am still close with everyone in her family because they think I am a nice individual and told me they will always remain in contact with me regardless of wether she likes it or not.

Basically I am a good father who just wants to have his child. But also most of all I want to make sure that my daughter grows up with a healthy mind and not one that is warped. I do not want her to lie to get what ever she wants. I want her to stop telling stories that are so far fetched that if a psychiatrist would hear her they would think she was disturbed. It is like a feeding frenzy with my ex and her hubby and my daughter. Lets see who can lie the most.

I would like to have a person appointed to hash out all of these problems but most of all I want help for my child, like I said as far as her mother and I we can fend for ourselves but she is just a tool for manipulation. That and she is learning to do it herself.
 

tigger22472

Senior Member
What county in Indiana are you dealing with?

If you have an attorney, why are they not addressing these needs for you?
They will obviously be able to tell you more about the judge that will hear the case and how they generally rule.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Indiana is a one party state so you may legally record the conversations,

Unless either one of you are on a cell phone then you can not record any conversation between you. Cell phone conversations are illegal to record.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
norm9838 said:
Let me just say this, this was not the first time that I was refused. I was told before Thanksgiving that on Thursday nights that my daughter was going to go to an afterschool program for kids to keep them off the street. I did not have a problem with the program but I wanted to pick her up afterwards.

That is not being refused. That was you not showing up to get your daughter.

Her mother and her both told me that I could not keep her from participating in this program. Like I said I did not have a problem with it. Then I was being told by my daughter right before Christmas that she was going shopping with stepdad for her mom on my Thursday and I said whoa wait a minute Thursday nights are my time. Her reply was to tell me that she would just say she had the school program and their was nothing I could do.

Great job. Let your daughter dictate the way things go. who is the parent here? You didn't show up did you? You should show up on Thursdays if that is your visitation time and exercise it.

Next it was volleyball, there is not an athletic bone in my daughters body. In fact to quite honest she is lazy. But all of her practices fall on my weekends not her moms. Interesting isn't it. Then again I was told by my daughter that I could not stop her and yet again I do not have a problem with the sports or school activities but why is it always only during the time I have her.

told by your daughter???? YOU ARE THE ADULT AND PARENT!

In the summer it will be summer school. It has been every year so that way mom has a built in babysitter for part of the summer. I called the school and asked if she was required to be there and they told me it was voluntary on her mothers part, she was not required to be there. But won't it look bad on my part if I don't take her.


So why do you let mom dictate. SHOW UP ON YOUR TIME AND EXERCISE YOUR VISITATION!

She lives 35 miles from me in another town. So that means driving her home and picking her up everyday. Which during the school year I am more than willing to do. For all these years I have done all of the driving, picking up and dropping off even though our papers said otherwise. I pick up at the start and she is suppose to pick her up and the end. But I did it so I could have my daughter.

Up until my ex got married I was able to have my daughter more then my scheduled visits and then stepdad stepped in and that all came to a halt.

I went to there house different times to exercise my visitation and found no one at home and then was told by her mother and her, we told you I had plans.


Therefore you should have filed contempt on those times!

So did I drive there to get her on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, no, what just to find an empty house as in the past.

Then you weren't denied vistiation. You didn't exercise it.

They told me they would not be there. Then too even if I would have who would they believe me, or her. This is a very small one horse town with no police and I am sure the county would not have wasted there time driving there with me just to document it.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY! File an incident report every time you are to have visitation and get a copy. You can file reports left and right. Then you march into court with it. It is called proof. What you have is not proof.

This is why I am going into court so the judge can explain to her that she signed the papers and needs to abide by them. I am suppose to get Thursday through Sunday and then the following Tuesday. We also have papers that stipulate holiday visits according to the county we live in. I also have summer visitation the same time each year. Which she is denying my credit for last year. I have the 1st through the 15th of June, July and August.

Credit? You don't bankroll time. You get it when it is unless the order allows you to bankroll or make it up.

Its ironic because I am still close with everyone in her family because they think I am a nice individual and told me they will always remain in contact with me regardless of wether she likes it or not.

Basically I am a good father who just wants to have his child. But also most of all I want to make sure that my daughter grows up with a healthy mind and not one that is warped. I do not want her to lie to get what ever she wants. I want her to stop telling stories that are so far fetched that if a psychiatrist would hear her they would think she was disturbed. It is like a feeding frenzy with my ex and her hubby and my daughter. Lets see who can lie the most.


I would like to have a person appointed to hash out all of these problems but most of all I want help for my child, like I said as far as her mother and I we can fend for ourselves but she is just a tool for manipulation. That and she is learning to do it herself.


You need to start taking responsibility. you haven't been. You let the child run the show. You don't exercise your visitation because you don't show up for it. That will go against you in court.
 
My husband went to court in August 2004 with 29 90minute tapes of him and his ex. Him and the kids. The worst of the worst tapes he transcribed word for word with the actual tape ready just in case the judge asked to hear anything. She did not ask to hear the actual tapes but did allow the transcriptions to be entered as evidence.

She lost custody.
 
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weenor

Senior Member
Just a thought...we started taping conversations with the child and the mother out of fear of what the mother was telling the child...The mother and the child had previously colluded to have the child throw such a fit that DHR would take her from her father...we had no idea what was happening until we got the call from DHR that the child was at the hospital..the point is that you don't always tape to "get something" for court...the better policy (if in doubt) is tape because you need information about what the other parent is trying to get the child to do or you information about how the other parent is trying to manipulate the child...this isn't always about court,but the child's mental health.
 
weenor said:
Just a thought...we started taping conversations with the child and the mother out of fear of what the mother was telling the child...The mother and the child had previously colluded to have the child throw such a fit that DHR would take her from her father...we had no idea what was happening until we got the call from DHR that the child was at the hospital..the point is that you don't always tape to "get something" for court...the better policy (if in doubt) is tape because you need information about what the other parent is trying to get the child to do or you information about how the other parent is trying to manipulate the child...this isn't always about court,but the child's mental health.

Well, this is exactly why we started taping mom and kids. We had the kids in with a counselor for over a year. Mom would call and say the craziest things you can imagine. She would have done Hitler proud with her indoctrination techniques. We would take the tapes to the counselor to let her deal with it during counseling sessions. Mom had this incredible technique of telling the kids a lie over and over and over. As she was telling the lie to the kids she would repeatedly tell them "now you understand this is the truth, right?". If they said no, then she would just repeat herself over and over and over again until she would finally get a yes out of them. When she got the yes answer she would tell them that she was going to call CPS and that she wanted them to tell the truth to CPS. Then ask 'you do remember what the truth is, right?" and have them repeat what she had told them.

That was how it started out, but the conversations got so crazy and the things she was telling the kids got so out of hand that my husband decided to try for a change of custody. The transcripts of a couple of mom and kid conversations were entered as evidence and read in court. It went soooo bad for mom. We started out taping because we were afraid she would be able to get CPS to believe her crazy talk. She has called them a few times but nothing has resulted from her calling. Plus we now have the tapes to show who is trully the crazy one.
 
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