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New York Times Article on Collector Complaints

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Debt Guy

Senior Member
An Outcry Rises as Debt Collectors Play Rough

By SEWELL CHAN
Published: July 5, 2006

The rise in American consumer debt has been accompanied by a sharp increase in complaints about aggressive and sometimes unscrupulous tactics by debt collection agencies, a phenomenon that has government regulators increasingly concerned.

In April, the Federal Trade Commission, which enforces the federal law that governs debt collection practices, reported that it received 66,627 complaints against third-party debt collectors last year — more than against any other industry, and nearly six times the number in 1999.

The agencies often buy the debt from more established companies for pennies on the dollar and seek to collect even if the debt has been paid or was never valid to begin with. Sometimes, consumers pay up simply because they are worn down by threats from the companies and fear damage to their credit rating.

go to this link for the entire article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/05/n...ex=1152158400&partner=homepage&pagewanted=all
 
Last edited:


TigerD

Senior Member
I didn't post the story because it was one sided and misrepresented the facts.

What the article – or the FTC – fail to do, however, is further break down those numbers into valid complaints of consumers truly illegally badgered by debt collectors and invalid complaints from consumers who would rather not be fiscally responsible for their debt.

Also, the article is strong on language against the debt collection industry, but provides little balance in its story. For instance, this quote from Peggy L. Twohig, who directs the FTC's Division of Financial Practices: “We're very concerned about the increase in complaints about debt collection, and we are stepping up our enforcement against the debt collection industry.” The article also interviews only folks who fit the profile of the wronged consumer, and fails to include any comment on the appearance of professional debtors.

The article also fails to properly address the many collection agencies that adhere to the law and train their collectors to follow it to the letter.

DC
 

Debt Guy

Senior Member
DC

There is much truth in what you say. The majority of collectors are decent and honorable people. Likewise, the majority of debtors and decent and honorable people. It is always the extremes that create the problem.

The collection industry is out of control. They cannot control their image and can't control the cowboys in their midst. Those cowboys are eventually going cause some sort of rewrite of FDCPA -- I think to increase the statutory punishment from $1000 to something that stings -- say $20,000.

There are three structural problems in the industry.

The first is that the "big boys" are all public companies now -- that means a constant and crushing pressure for earnings every month, over and over and over. That pressure rolls downhill to some guy sitting in a grimy cubicle with a headset wishing he were home with his kids instead of staying on the dailer an extra two hours to make his number (which he thinks is ridiculous).

The second problem is closely related. The industry, by and large, pays lousy wages but creates commission/bonus schedules that induce the selfish to do things they know are wrong and rationalize it because "everyone does it" or "no one will find out" or "no one cares" or "if I get caught, I'll go to work for the CA across town".

The third problem is unrelated but in some ways more signifcant. The reality is that collection is an exercise in psychology. For most collectors, the psychology they use is one of creating fear. I can motivate people though fear. But, there is a big problem with using fear as a motivational tool. It requires a constant reapplication in every larger doses to obtain the same result (google Frederick Herzberg and read his classic study on motivation). Weak collectors who use fear as the primary motivational tool will inevitably cross the line because they must escalate continually.

Personally, I believe in the exact opposite approach (google Daniel Goleman and his work with emotional intelligence). My guess is that every debtor owes 10 people and has the ability to pay four. How do I get to be one of those four? Fear is probably not the most constructive emotion.

Anyway, here is a brand new FTC press release that is symptomatic of the systemic problems I see in the collection industry. Perhaps the FDCPA should provide for criminal punishment in addition to civil?

Debt Collectors Agree to Settle With FTC for $150,000

July 6, 2006

A debt collection agency that allegedly used lies and threats to collect debts has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that its tactics violated federal laws. Under the court settlement, the company agreed to a $150,000 judgment and to refrain from illegal practices when collecting debts, including “time-barred” debts – debts so old they are no longer legally enforceable.

The government’s complaint alleges that Whitewing Financial Group, Inc. bought and attempted to collect on very old debts, many of which were beyond statutory limitations and too old to appear on credit reports, and many of which had been discharged in bankruptcy. As required by law, Whitewing sent “validation notices” informing consumers of their right to dispute the alleged debts, but its statements in phone calls allegedly often contradicted those notices. The statements pressured consumers to make payments before they had received the validation notice, and confused them about their rights, including who had the burden of establishing the validity of the debt. Under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), if a consumer disputes all or part of a debt in writing within 30 days of receiving a validation notice, the debt collector must cease collection efforts until it has provided the consumer with written verification of the debt.

The complaint alleges that, because there is no legitimate method to enforce payment of time-barred debts, the defendants often misrepresented the status of the debts, leading people to believe that legal proceedings had begun, that lawsuits to collect debts were not time-barred, or that the defendants had documents showing that the debts were valid when, in fact, they did not. The complaint also alleges that the defendants misrepresented that if the consumer did not pay the debt, the defendants would take actions that they never intended to take, such as reporting the debts to credit bureaus or initiating legal proceedings.

Whitewing, based in Houston, Texas, and co-defendants Christopher B. Badger, Lynda J. Badger, and Jon P. Badger are charged with violating the FDCPA and the FTC Act by, among other things, misrepresenting the character, amount, or legal status of debts, threatening to take actions that cannot legally be taken or that are not intended to be taken, using false representations or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect debts or to obtain informationconcerning a consumer, contradicting the notification of consumer rights contained in the validation notice, and communicating with consumers without prior consent or court permission, at times or places the defendants knew or should have known were inconvenient for the consumer, such as their work place.

All but $30,000 of the $150,000 judgment has been suspended based on the defendants’ inability to pay. The Commission vote to refer the complaint and proposed consent decree to the Department of Justice for filing was 5-0. At the FTC’s request, the DOJ filed the complaint and consent decree in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas, Houston Division. Judge Lynn N. Holmes entered the consent decree on June 23, 2006.


Source: Press Release
 

garrula lingua

Senior Member
What ?! The debt collectors couldn't pay their fine of 150k ? (How apt that they were named "Badger"...)

The court shouldn't have suspended all but 30k - they should have handed the fine over to a CA if/when it wasn't paid as required. Poetic justice.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
Excellent points Debt Guy. It is the source of much debate within the industry as well. Debt buyers have been victims of unscruplus people reselling the same portfolio several times. When that happens it is the collector on the end of the chain that takes the abuse for it.

Ther have been some criminal penalties applied in those cases, but in reality the result is mainly civil battles fought by people that know the debt systems and how to beat them -- it becomes an exercise in uselessness.

Debt Guy said:
The collection industry is out of control.

I would argue that the debt collection industry isn't out of control. The credit granting industries are out of control. More than 50 percent of the people extended credit should never have been allowed to receive credit.

Debt Guy said:
They cannot control their image and can't control the cowboys in their midst. Those cowboys are eventually going cause some sort of rewrite of FDCPA -- I think to increase the statutory punishment from $1000 to something that stings -- say $20,000.

You have valid points, but I am also sure you recognize that there are far fewer "cowboys" than there were several years ago.

Debt Guy said:
There are three structural problems in the industry.

Well considered points.

Debt Guy said:
The first is that the "big boys" are all public companies now -- that means a constant and crushing pressure for earnings every month, over and over and over. That pressure rolls downhill to some guy sitting in a grimy cubicle with a headset wishing he were home with his kids instead of staying on the dailer an extra two hours to make his number (which he thinks is ridiculous).

The second problem is closely related. The industry, by and large, pays lousy wages but creates commission/bonus schedules that induce the selfish to do things they know are wrong and rationalize it because "everyone does it" or "no one will find out" or "no one cares" or "if I get caught, I'll go to work for the CA across town".

The third problem is unrelated but in some ways more signifcant. The reality is that collection is an exercise in psychology. For most collectors, the psychology they use is one of creating fear. I can motivate people though fear. But, there is a big problem with using fear as a motivational tool. It requires a constant reapplication in every larger doses to obtain the same result (google Frederick Herzberg and read his classic study on motivation). Weak collectors who use fear as the primary motivational tool will inevitably cross the line because they must escalate continually.


I'd like to point out that the three structural problems you refer to appear to me as symptoms of a single structural issue and that being the billion dollar CAs that collect millions of dollars per month. I worked for a company that collected millions per month on one account. We were call center employees, tied to a dialer and not the least bit interested in the debtors' stories. The conversation was simple - grab your checkbook. No, well you'll change you mind after 150 calls. Click - next call. Grab your checkbook. And so one.

What you have to remember is that it costs a lot of money to collect debt and those costs cannot be added to the balance owed by the debtor. Therefore, collectors at larger companies tend to go for the easier accounts and don't waste time on problems.

Debt Guy said:
Personally, I believe in the exact opposite approach (google Daniel Goleman and his work with emotional intelligence). My guess is that every debtor owes 10 people and has the ability to pay four. How do I get to be one of those four? Fear is probably not the most constructive emotion.

Excellent point. Good collectors focus the consumer on good feelings and boost in self worth they'll get by paying their debt. I always try to leave the consumers smiling b the end of the call. If they feel better about resolving the issue, the whole thing works out well for everybody.

As for the people in the press release, they have been trying to unload their portfolios and nobody is buying -- that should tell you what the industry thinks of them.

DC
 

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