Niece needs help

[dancer61958]

My brother recently won a custody battle of his daughter from my mother who took it to circuit court and lost appealed and went to appeals court and lost and finally to the supreme court and lost. While the Supreme court was making their decision whether to hear the case or not, my brother wanted to move out of state to start over where we grew up in New York City. The judge wouldn't let him take his daughter until he had a job and a place to live and awarded my mother temporary guardianship. Well he found a job and a place to live and let the Ky courts know. He went back to Ky and the judge ultimately ordered my mother to hand over his daughter within one hour. It was at that time that the Supreme court also sought to not hear the case and threw it out. My brother then took his daughter with him back to New York City leaving Ky. Now my mother went back into court for visitation wanting my niece back in Ky for Christmas vacation only 3 weeks after she left Ky. My niece didnt want to go on the plane herself and the court papers didn't arrive till after the day she was supposed to be put on the plane. My mother has now gone back into court and filed contempt charges on my brother and filed a warrant for his arrest. My question is, is there any way my niece can get anyone to speak for her? She is 11 yrs old will be 12 this summer and she feels that noone asks her what she wants. My mother was calling her telling her she had no choice she had to get on the plane or daddy would be in trouble with the judge. My brother went to family court in New York City and they said even though he has been a resident for a year now the child has to be there 6 mo. Until that time there is nothing they can do and he has to go by Ky law. Is there anyone out there who can help this child? Where does he look Ky or Ny. does it matter? He can't afford to keep taking time off of work. That is what my mother is hoping for so she can get back my niece. My brother can't afford a lawyer any longer and surely isn't stepping foot back in ky again. There is a hearing on Jan 19th 2001 for the contempt charges and I am doing all that I can to help my niece and for what she wants. I didn't know where else to turn. Please advise?
Thanks

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My brother recently won a custody battle of his daughter from my mother who took it to circuit court and lost appealed and went to appeals court and lost and finally to the supreme court and lost. While the Supreme court was making their decision whether to hear the case or not, my brother wanted to move out of state to start over where we grew up in New York City. The judge wouldn't let him take his daughter until he had a job and a place to live and awarded my mother temporary guardianship. Well he found a job and a place to live and let the Ky courts know. He went back to Ky and the judge ultimately ordered my mother to hand over his daughter within one hour. It was at that time that the Supreme court also sought to not hear the case and threw it out. My brother then took his daughter with him back to New York City leaving Ky. Now my mother went back into court for visitation wanting my niece back in Ky for Christmas vacation only 3 weeks after she left Ky. My niece didnt want to go on the plane herself and the court papers didn't arrive till after the day she was supposed to be put on the plane. My mother has now gone back into court and filed contempt charges on my brother and filed a warrant for his arrest. My question is, is there any way my niece can get anyone to speak for her? She is 11 yrs old will be 12 this summer and she feels that noone asks her what she wants. My mother was calling her telling her she had no choice she had to get on the plane or daddy would be in trouble with the judge. My brother went to family court in New York City and they said even though he has been a resident for a year now the child has to be there 6 mo. Until that time there is nothing they can do and he has to go by Ky law. Is there anyone out there who can help this child? Where does he look Ky or Ny. does it matter? He can't afford to keep taking time off of work. That is what my mother is hoping for so she can get back my niece. My brother can't afford a lawyer any longer and surely isn't stepping foot back in ky again. There is a hearing on Jan 19th 2001 for the contempt charges and I am doing all that I can to help my niece and for what she wants. I didn't know where else to turn. Please advise?
Thanks

My response:

The contempt charges, and any orders concerning who that child sees, should be dismissed based upon the recent United States Supreme Court decision in "Troxel vs. Granville" decided July 2000. In that case, which is the law for all 50 States, places the final decision in the hands of the parent whom the child sees, and doesn't see, or visits. If a parent says, "No Grandparent or Uncle or Aunt visitation", that's it. The decision is clear, and the final decision belongs to the parents. The government (the courts) must stand aside from such decision of the parents.

Have a Kentucky attorney write an opposition brief, and request for dismissal, based upon Troxel.

IAAL

 

[Grandma B]

While I abhor the "Troxel" decision because I do not believe it serves the best interest of children, I'm very happy that it should help this young man.

Grandma sounds like a controlling person who unfortunately has the $'s required to utilize our court system.

 

[dancer61958]

Mother controlling

Yes my mother is very controlling. As a matter of fact, when the judge finally told my brother that he could take his daughter with him to New York my mother looked at my brother and said "I'm not through with you yet". I don't think children should be used as pawns.

What bothers me is she is calling all the shots saying when she is going to have my niece not conferring with my brother if it is ok like he has no rights regarding when she is to see his daughter. They don't live in the same state anymore and it won't be that easy.My mother told my niece on the phone last week that she is getting her for Spring vacation from school and she will go to New York to pick her up so there are no excuses of her not wanting to travel on the plane alone. Why does she have to take her out of New York back to Ky for visitation if she plans on going to New York anyway? This whole thing is worse than a soap opera. My mother has no communication with her own kids, and the judge thinks this is alright by allowing these visitations. My brother cannot get another lawyer to represent him as he has exhausted all funds owing this last attorney the total of 12,000.

My mother stole 10,000 from my grandmother's bank acct when she was living with her as she has dementia. And that is how she has been paying these expenses. Plus she has her church helping her. All she is doing is wasting tax payers money to get revenge on my brother. It isn't right.

 

[LegalBeagle]

While I abhor the "Troxel" decision because I do not believe it serves the best interest of children, I'm very happy that it should help this young man.

You think that any interested party should have a say in how children are raised ? The "Troxel vs. Granville" decision was one of the best decisions to come out of the USSC for a long time. I personally would fight with every breath I had if a court ordered me to hand over my child to someone other than the mother.

 

[dancer61958]

My niece

I appreciate everyone's comments regarding my niece. My only question is, how can a judge in his right mind let visitation happen with my mother (the grandmother) when she has no contact with her own children or relationship. And she has had a history of abandoning her own children when they were young, and physically and mentally abused her own children? I recently wrote the judge a letter telling him of the abuse suffered by mother so that he can fairly render his decision on my brother's contempt charges on the 19th of this month. How would my brother go about getting someone to speak for his daughter and for what she wants? Doesn't an 11 yr old have a say in what she wants to do and who she wants to visit? Doesnt the parent have a say in when visitation should happen and if it should happen? Unfortunately he has to go by Ky law until the 6 mo waiting period that my niece is in New York. If he went by New York Law she would have no rights and would have to fight New York court. This is why she is trying to get visitation so soon after she has just left Ky. Because it would break up that 6 mo waiting period and it would have to start all over again.

 

[Grandma B]

Did you not read IAAL's post at all? Your mother has no more rights regarding your niece in Kentucky than she has in New York! This was a United States Supreme Court ruling, thus affecting all states.

to LB: No, I don't think for one minute that any interested party should have their say about how children are raised. However, there are cases where people other than the parents have actually done more to nurture and support children. Say for instance that a rebellious teen has a child, lives at home with parents for a few years with her parents providing love and support, thereby also effecting a bond with the child.

Often times, the mother ends up moving away at least temporarily, then returns to reclaim her child and decides the grandparents won't be allowed visitation.

I don't think this is fair to the grandparents, but more importantly, I feel it is very harmful to the child to be wrested away from the people with whom they have formed a close bond and who have provided them with love and security from infancy.

Of course you would (and SHOULD) fight with every breath you have to not turn your child over to anyone but the mother. I'm also sure you've been around since (even before) your child's birth and that you and your wife have provided all the love and support your baby requires. Know what else, I'll bet you don't deny visitation to the baby's grandparents (even though you didn't force a bond between them).

 

[dancer61958]

Grandmother's rights

I believe there should be grandmother's rights if for visitation purposes if she really loves her grandaughter as she states. My brother is a single parent and is raising two children on his own with no help from the mothers involved. He loves his children and doesn't want to lose them. My mother doesn't love her grandaughter, or she wouldn't be telling her if she doesn't get on the plane her daddy will be in big trouble. That isn't love that is a threat her her father and why should an 11 year old have to sit there worrying what is going to happen to her father. My niece asked my mother what is going to happen to her daddy on the phone and my brother taped the whole conversation. My mother then explained to her that was up to the judge. she then said when someone doesn't do what they are supposed to do then they get punnished. Meaning not sending her on the plane against her will. She tried to use my nieces school as an example and homelife by saying if you do something wrong at school and at home, don't you get in trouble? I mean come on now. As for Ky law, I have no idea what it is. Sounds pretty messed up to me. Unless it's just the judge who doesn't know what he is doing. Obviously the judge felt that my mother (the grandmother) had rights under Ky law for visitation just 3 weeks after my niece leaving the state or he wouldn't have signed the order. Something is fishy in Ky. if you ask me. If she were a decent person and showed true love for this child and not revenge on her father I would have no problem with her wanting visitation.

 

[LegalBeagle]

The trouble with the USSC decision is that it does not carry much weight in many local courts. Go into that KY court and tell the judge that according to "Troxel vs. Granville" the GP should not have any visitation rights and you are likely to be laughed out of court. If it had any weight then the GP would still not be given visitation. I do not believe for a moment that the judge is unaware of that decision.

To contest visitation based on that ruling you need the money to fight it, and to take it to the appeal courts and state supreme courts if needs be.

This man has no money and if he is unable to get any more money then he in trouble. He will need to fight it pro-se which will end up being very expensive and possible lose his job since he will need to return to KY each time. This is the GP intention.. she can now hound him from a local court until the point where he breaks. I do not envy him as his only way out is to get more money and defeat this once and for all.

 

[Grandma B]

Oh man, you just hit my sorest nerve -- that our court system dances for dollars. Sold to the highest bidder!

 

[LegalBeagle]

Oh man, you just hit my sorest nerve -- that our court system dances for dollars. Sold to the highest bidder!

Yep.. If you look at 50% of the posts on these boards where someone is being screwed, all it would take to sort it out is a nice 10k check. Look at this post, 10k right now would make all the difference to the outcome of this case.

 

[Grandma B]

And a sorrier part of the whole mess is if these people were criminals, they would be provided with "free" attorney services. Since they're only trying to either support or seek better situations for their families, we can't help them! Sad