Opinions on these expenses please?

[Aguyintrouble]

What is the name of your state? New Hampshire

Family of five, 2 adults and 3 kids. Ages are 5, 4 and 1. Two doggies (German Shepherd and a Beagle) and two cats.

Am I missing anything obvious, and should I allot more for clothing for example? 20 a month per person seems low for 3 growing kids to me....

monthly bills

mortgage 1 chase $1,380
mortgage 2 ocwen $367
vehicle insurance $220
PSNH electric $200
Pennichuck water $30
keyspan gas $78
adelphia cable $68
directv $66
durango $397
stratus $217
propane $0
verizon phone $60
us cellular cell bills $80
waste management $30
Consol Loan $0
Gas/Tolls $375
Food/Household items $1,000

Entertainment $75
Pool/Hot tub $35
Dog food $45
Vet Bills $25
Registrations.Inspections $67
Car incidentals $40
Firewood $42
Tobacco $120
Clothing $150
Gifts $50
AOL $15
Cat food $20
Cat litter $20
Pre-School $100
Kids activities $100
Scripts/Co-Pays $75
Septic $10
Home repair/maint $50
Haircuts $43
Dry cleaning $15
OTC Meds $15
Magazines, Newspapaers $10
Charity $20
Work lunch $80
Bank Charges $15
School Supplies $10
Cosmetics $15
Postage $4

$5,833

 

[Aguyintrouble]

Math error....

Clothing accounts for diapers too, at 50 a month.... We use firewood to supplimeny heat in the house via fireplace and burn close to 2 cords of wood per year.

Also - my wife is the youngest of a large family where we have 15 neices and nephews. The gift number is about 20/25 per kid per year.


Thanks!

 

[JETX]

I think your 'claimed' expenses are far too excessive!!
You are supposed to learn to live within your means.... not as you have in the past (clearly above your income level!).
What is your monthly income??

 

[Aguyintrouble]

Answers

Jetx -

Thanks for the reply. Yes - we did live pretty well a while back, but these expenses are actuals. We bring in about 5600 a month which does seem high (and it is) true, but the situation is not 100% explained.

For the past 18 months we've been paying a consolidation program with our creditors. 2 of them have now demanded immediate payment even though they are on the program itself and we've been paying them. Seems that the debts were sold to other places that won't do the program.

We don't have any reserve funds now as we had to use them to save the houes 18 months ago (when I lost a job and we were in foreclosure).

So you are suggesting that these expenses are too high and that I should lower them? That may put me into a Chapter 13 which is fine with me, but there's no way I can immedaitely pay all the funds that the creditors want me to.

Thanks!

 

[JETX]

That may put me into a Chapter 13 which is fine with me, but there's no way I can immedaitely pay all the funds that the creditors want me to.

Chapter 13 does not require immediate payment, but has a payment 'plan' over a 3 to 5 year period.

And yes, I have done a cursory review of your claimed 'expenses' and believe them to be excessive. Hopefully, the trustee will also. You have added seasonal expenses (firewood) as a monthly bill, when it shouldn't be. Take them all on an annual basis, then divide by 12. Eliminate ALL discretionary expenses. $66 per month for satellite tv PLUS $68 per month for cable!!! Over-the-air channels are FREE!
$12,000 per year for 'food/household'!! Go on a diet!!
$4,500 per year fror 'gas/tolls'!!! Yeah, right!!
Sell, kill or give away the cat. That will save you $600 per year!!
$43 per month ($500 per year) for 'haircuts'!!! Buy clippers for $20.
Almost $1500 per year for 'tobacco'!!! Quit smoking!!

And these are just SOME of the outrageous 'expenses' you are claiming.

 

[Ladynred]

Your expenses may seem outrageous to JetX, but you will not REALLY know if what you listed would be acceptable until you consult with a bankruptcy attorney in your area. Only a lawyer who does bankruptcies all the time will know whether or not your expenses will fly with your local Trustees.

$43 a month for haircuts isn't high at all, especially if that INLCUDES all your kids and your wife's hairdresser. The $375/mo for gas, tolls, etc. SEEMS high, but if you and your wife have to travel the New England toll highways (been there done that, lived outside of Boston !) and commute any distance, its not excessive at all.

Pets ARE allowed, within reason, and not all Trustees have JetX's attitude of 'kill the cat'. Obviously he likes dogs and hates cats, he didn't say anything about killing the dogs !!

Cable tv is no longer considered a 'luxury', although the DirectTV probably is more in that category of non-essential.

Definitely take your expense list and talk to a few lawyers, see what THEY say.

 

[JETX]

Okay, so now you have responses from someone who LOVES bankruptcy... and from someone who LOVES personal accountability and realizes that a LOT of people (and businesses) abuse the intent of bankruptcy protection... that being to HELP you to resolve YOUR financial irresponsibility by giving you a fresh start.

In my opinion.... your claims of expenses are excessive and do NOT show a reasonable attempt to 'reign in' your expensive life-style when compared to your income level. You seem intent on only keeping it as it is... and that is what got you in trouble in the first place. I feel my position is supported by your apparent intent to 'test' your expenses here to see if they fly before you submit them. Clearly, even YOU suspect they are excessive and have a better than even chance of being challenged.

And though we may view this issue from opposing perspectives, Ladynred and I both agree.... that the only 'real' opinion of value is that of the bankruptcy trustee.

 

[Aguyintrouble]

Thanks for the opinions, Lady and Jetx....

I appreciate BOTH of you taking the time to answer me, honestly. Advice and opinions are always you own, whether or not I agree (or the trustee even) with what is said - and I do appreciate it.

Ladynred - to your opinion:

The haircuts include haircuts once every 6-7 weeks for the entire family. Even my son, as he has more hair than I do, and he's only 13 months.

I commute close to 130 miles daily to work, and hit 1.25 in tolls EACH way. My wife drives the kids to school, as there's no transportation available for one, and the other only gets bus service one way. We included in only one trip other than necessity demands to my mother in laws once a week at a total of 50ish miles total - which allows us to see her and my father in law who suffered a stroke last year.

Dog and Cat wise - yeah - they are real and do eat. And relieve themselves too.

We did talk to a lawyer in the area, and without getting details on the expenses said we did have a high income but we also have a lot of expenses. I think he and his staff are working off of normal area expenses as he did ask us what we were paying per month for some items.

My issue is that I'm currently trying to pay off my creditors, but 2 of them won't allow me to do that anymore - at least the numbers I've been paying them. If they garnish my wages, or anything like that, we hit huge negative numbers really really fast - even with killing the cats.