Post secondary education

[ellymom]

What is the name of your state? Washington State

I have some questions regarding how post secondary education is awarded. We do have an attorney whom states it is usually awarded in some amount or other in WA State but that is because most cases brought before the court have "merit". Now I am all for helping my children acheive a better future but am very opposed to the courts making that decision for me. It is actually my stepson whom the support is being sought for. My husband has paid and extra year of basic support because the childs mother moved him to a new state just two months before completing a school semester. He had to start his junior year over and she wouldn't put him in summer school to get caught up. Of course she never informed my husband of this in any manner. He found out from his son two days before their move and afterward about the school issues. His mother has alienated him terribly from my husband and we are just the checkbook. We even paid $500 for him to take college correspondence classes to graduate back in Dec. He dropped those and re-enrolled in high school to exptent the child support even longer. His grades are currently ALL F's even though he is taking only a half load. He has been caught cheating in one of his classes on several occasions. His mother was made aware of this but failed to mention any of this in her court declaration. She just states, "he struggles with Spanish". He has over 36 unexcused absences from class and over 24 tardies just this year. I cannot fathom that a judge would actually award any amount of college to be paid in this situation but am concerned regardless. My husband and I recently adopted a 2 yr old daughter and I have 3 boys. I had gotten ill after our adoption was complete and was out of work for 6 months without pay. We have mounting medical bills and no flex in our budget at all unless I were to go to work full time and leave our daughter in day care. I also cannot imagine the stress this would put on us regarding our other children. We cannot put 5 children through college but how do you justify sending one and not the others? I really wish the government would but out of business that doesn't belong to them. Are they now going to start telling me what consequences my children will have when misbehaving. Will they force my husband to put his son in the will because; "had he stayed married, the child would have been afforded the inheritance". Where does this end? Sorry for the long rant, but I have been now put on medication for the stress because the courts are over stepping their bounds!

Correen

 

[nextwife]

Will they force my husband to put his son in the will because; "had he stayed married, the child would have been afforded the inheritance". Where does this end? Sorry for the long rant, but I have been now put on medication for the stress because the courts are over stepping their bounds!

Correen

Intersting concept. But based upon a false premise. When my dad died, in our INTACT, undivorced family, his entire estate went to my mom. When my uncle died, he left his ENTIRE estate to his spouse as well.

I am in the RE dept of a bank, and I see situations with deceased borrowers ALL THE TIME, in which the will does NOT leave to the children. When there is a will, the law does NOT dictate who inherits!

If mom wants her kid provided for in adulthood if their dad dies, why don't they do the same thing I did for my kid- buy a life insurance policy to ASSURE that happens. Because a will is meaningless, if the creditors claims, and end of life care expenses exceed the assets subject to the will.

 

[ellymom]

What I'm trying to get at is that married parents are given the sole discretion as to whether or not they will pay for their childs college ed. If their child is failing, skipping classes regularly, cheating, and lying; most parents would not shell out thousands of dollars to see it flushed down the toilet. The courts don't give divorced fathers this same right, so if the rights are not given equally, then the courts could in fact impose restrictions on other aspects of the child/parent relationship. My husband does not have his son listed in our policy because he doesn't want a relationship AT all. My husband truly is the victim in this although I know many people want to beleive he must have done something. There are some really evil ex's out there that work diligently to alienate "their" child from the other parent. He now has a choice at 19 yrs old and continues to do what mommy wants because she "buys" his devotion. I beleive any issues of post secondary education should be addressed at the divorce/child support/custody hearing. This could prevent many problems by knowing what to expect, what the guidelines are for support, and not having to once again shell out for an attorney. I only used the will thing as an example of how the courts are overstepping their bounds with the "discretion" they are given. Why can't the law be very clear in what "aptitude" means?

Ellymom

 

[stealth2]

We cannot put 5 children through college but how do you justify sending one and not the others?

Here's the thing.... you are not responsible for helping Mom & Dad put their child through college. Just as your husband is not responsible for helping you put your three kids through college - that's between you and their Dad. Neither his ex nor yours are responsible for the choices you make for the child you now share, either. Different parents do different things.

Many parents who would have supported their children through further education had they remained together, decide not to when they split out of spite for the ex or because a new SO/spouse doesn't want to see money going out of the household for that "other" kid. So the court will often step in.

 

[nextwife]

Here's the thing.... you are not responsible for helping Mom & Dad put their child through college. Just as your husband is not responsible for helping you put your three kids through college - that's between you and their Dad. Neither his ex nor yours are responsible for the choices you make for the child you now share, either. Different parents do different things.

Many parents who would have supported their children through further education had they remained together, decide not to when they split out of spite for the ex or because a new SO/spouse doesn't want to see money going out of the household for that "other" kid. So the court will often step in.

However, the court in those cases PRESUMES that the parent WOULD have paid for college, yet they often have no evidence that the parent would have done this at that point in their life had the marriage not broken up.

 

[stealth2]

And they often do. To get anecdotal, my ex always said that he would do what was necessary to pay for our two to go through a 4 yr college education. When we split up, he reiterated that stance and had it placed into our order that he would be 100% responsible. After he remarried and his wife didn't like the idea, he took it back to court to have that stipulation rescinded. Too bad, so sad - the judge reamed him out and told him he was still responsible and the three of us (he, I and the child in question - his wife is to have no say in the matter) would have to come to a consensus on the school - or the judge would decide.

Of course, now he talks about #1 going to community college, and #2 going to an Ivy. I'll note that both are exceptionally bright, #1 more so to be honest - Dad just doesn't agree with his interests and career goals.

 

[nextwife]

And they often do. To get anecdotal, my ex always said that he would do what was necessary to pay for our two to go through a 4 yr college education. When we split up, he reiterated that stance and had it placed into our order that he would be 100% responsible. After he remarried and his wife didn't like the idea, he took it back to court to have that stipulation rescinded. Too bad, so sad - the judge reamed him out and told him he was still responsible and the three of us (he, I and the child in question - his wife is to have no say in the matter) would have to come to a consensus on the school - or the judge would decide.

Of course, now he talks about #1 going to community college, and #2 going to an Ivy. I'll note that both are exceptionally bright, #1 more so to be honest - Dad just doesn't agree with his interests and career goals.

And my dad planned, when we were younger, to help with our college. However, by the time that stage of our lives came along, he was no longer alive. Had he been, he would have already been in DIFFERENT financial status than he might have been if my parents had divorced when I was a kid, when dad was doing well financially. In intact families, the parents revisit the college situation, and their capablity financially, when the day actually arrives.

They also have some INPUT into the college choice and the degree to which they commit to help, based on the cost of the education at the institution they all select together. My brother's kids did NOT have carte blanc to just pick any school they wanted, then demand the parents pay for half. They ended up at a state college (UW) partially because of the expense issue, and because they were able to obtain some scholarship money to use there. They did not get to unilaterally IMPOSE whatever financial obligation they wished on their parents.

 

[haiku]

now my husbands not an evil guy, and currently there is no college stipilations in his court orders..but I really do find it bizarre that all i have to do to insure he pays fo rour childs college is divorce him? Thats just nuts to me....I don't really care how you lok at it no child is owed a hugher education from thier parents, its nice if it happens...but what a conversation my kids could have someday-"yeah little haiku, too bad your moms still married to dad, because our mom took him to court and made him pay for our schooling so we didn't have to work at walmart while we went to college like you did!".....

 

[nextwife]

now my husbands not an evil guy, and currently there is no college stipilations in his court orders..but I really do find it bizarre that all i have to do to insure he pays fo rour childs college is divorce him? Thats just nuts to me....I don't really care how you lok at it no child is owed a hugher education from thier parents, its nice if it happens...but what a conversation my kids could have someday-"yeah little haiku, too bad your moms still married to dad, because our mom took him to court and made him pay for our schooling so we didn't have to work at walmart while we went to college like you did!".....

Exactly. I PLAN to help kiddo with college. But frankly, of she's acting like some greedy, ungrateful, privileged little brat about it when the time comes, I want the discretion to make my OWN decision about to what extent I will expect her to pay. And I will expect her to work- just as my dad did, just as I and my sibs all did. I believe that one appreciates their education more when they themselves are paying a good chunk of the cost. And, as a parent, I should have the RIGHT to expect my child do what I did in paying for college.

 

[stealth2]

And my dad planned, when we were younger, to help with our college. However, by the time that stage of our lives came along, he was no longer alive. Had he been, he would have already been in DIFFERENT financial status than he might have been if my parents had divorced when I was a kid, when dad was doing well financially. In intact families, the parents revisit the college situation, and their capablity financially, when the day actually arrives.

I agree that different situations require different solutions.

They also have some INPUT into the college choice and the degree to which they commit to help, based on the cost of the education at the institution they all select together. My brother's kids did NOT have carte blanc to just pick any school they wanted, then demand the parents pay for half. They ended up at a state college (UW) partially because of the expense issue, and because they were able to obtain some scholarship money to use there. They did not get to unilaterally IMPOSE whatever financial obligation they wished on their parents.

LOL Neither will my kids. They're both quite aware of the financial aspects involved and plan on doing their part with work/study, etc.. As do I. We're looking at a wide variety of possibilities to reduce the financial load - which I'd happily share with and include Dad in if he'd actually communicate on any level. However, he made several choices that will make his contribution more than he may have originally planned on. That's really just too bad for him.

 

[ellymom]

I wanted to go to college and put myself through without any assistance from my parents at all. I got loans, worked, supported two very young children as a single parent, and got a 4.0 throughout. This is not an issue between me and my husbands ex spouse but an issue of the courts getting in the middle of personal parental decision making. I will do whatever I can to "help" any of our children get a better education IF they have earned that PRIVILEDGE. I beleive too many children these days are being raised with the belief that they are owed and entitled to certain things instead of it being earned. I do not want my children to grow up with this belief and don't appreciate the courts interceding on that!
My husbands ex has kept several important pieces of information to herself that we fortunately just found out. She has lied in her declaration and we have absolute proof of it. I am wondering if we can collect attorney's fees from her based on the fact she has misled the court, made false statements, and withheld pertinent information related to the case. Throughout the years, she has kept vital information from my husband, violating the parenting plan. She even went as far as to threaten a school official if they gave any information to my husbandwithout asking her first. They informed her that the parenting plan gave them full right to release all information to the childs father without going through her first. This is just a tidbit of information in our case, but I would like to know if anyone has ever gotten attorney fees awarded in a situation like this?

Ellymom

 

[yolandanewell]

Post-Secondary Education

A post secondary (vocational) education is actually the wisest way to go if you want the child involved in career training. It's quick - (usually) state certified, less expensive than a four year and will give him/her the basic knowledge and certification to move forward in his chosen field of study. I know that our facility's enrollment is credit driven. If the child is over 18 years old - he can very well be financially responsible for post secondary education himself with a co-borrower on a loan.

If there is a question of attempting to gain a grant - the childs attendance and grades will fall into play when determining if the state (I'm in California) will risk that chance of paying for his/her education... Might wanna ask custodial mom (since wouldn't the cost have to be divided in half?) if she herself wants to take that financial risk on a kiddo that seems to not be interested in school anyway.

Ultimately "college" is time for the child to take accountability for their own actions - it doesn't appear to me that the child in question is at a stage in his life where he is ready to commit to ANY type of education - I would have to question the motives of even pushing this issue.