Reasonable Visitation?

[Rushia]

NY

What exactly entails reasonable visitation? I have sole legal/physical custody of our two children with my X husband. I have left visitation open to dad. He tends to take them for an overnight every other Sat night. We get along (for the most part).

Here is the problem. My son has been diagnosed with a learned defience disorder. His therapist believes this behavior is learned and passed down through his paternal side, start with the grandparent, down to dad, down to son. She (therapist) firmly believes that I should either severely limit visitation to either a few hours or supervised or even possibly try to terminate dad's rights. I have fought with her on this issue for a few months trying to look at all possible angles for the best interest of my son. Morally I believe that dad should see them, but my son's behavior has seriously escalated into violence. He is beating on his 3 year old sister (blacked her eye yesterday) and other such things. I have sat dad down and already discussed this with him twice. Obviously nothing has changed. I plan to sit him down for another talk this weekend.

What possible legal ramifications could I be looking at if I cut his visitation to a few hours at my house until this behavior problem is under control should dad try to take me to court?

 

[doin-it-myself]

Get another opinion. You should not try to take visits away from father. It seems to me that by doing so the child may get worse than he is now. Get another opinion before going through with what this therapist says please.

 

[Rushia]

Get another opinion. You should not try to take visits away from father. It seems to me that by doing so the child may get worse than he is now. Get another opinion before going through with what this therapist says please.

Thank you for the opinion, but as I have stated, I have argued this point with his therapist for that reason. I also have proof on my own (without the therapist) that this IS behavior that is learned from his father and grandparents. I am considering supervising some visits in my home until my son is under control.

 

[Shineondivine]

Second Opinion is a Must

Something just doesn't add up with your therapist's point of view. Before taking away from your son a father who loves him (unless there's abuse you didn't mention) then other avenues need to be explored. Like, all three of you going to counseling, a new counselor. By all means do everything possible to keep your three year old safe. However, if your son is hurting his sibling, he may hurt himself next. This matter needs attention quickly.

NY

What exactly entails reasonable visitation? I have sole legal/physical custody of our two children with my X husband. I have left visitation open to dad. He tends to take them for an overnight every other Sat night. We get along (for the most part).

Here is the problem. My son has been diagnosed with a learned defience disorder. His therapist believes this behavior is learned and passed down through his paternal side, start with the grandparent, down to dad, down to son. She (therapist) firmly believes that I should either severely limit visitation to either a few hours or supervised or even possibly try to terminate dad's rights. I have fought with her on this issue for a few months trying to look at all possible angles for the best interest of my son. Morally I believe that dad should see them, but my son's behavior has seriously escalated into violence. He is beating on his 3 year old sister (blacked her eye yesterday) and other such things. I have sat dad down and already discussed this with him twice. Obviously nothing has changed. I plan to sit him down for another talk this weekend.

What possible legal ramifications could I be looking at if I cut his visitation to a few hours at my house until this behavior problem is under control should dad try to take me to court?

 

[Rushia]

Something just doesn't add up with your therapist's point of view. Before taking away from your son a father who loves him (unless there's abuse you didn't mention) then other avenues need to be explored. Like, all three of you going to counseling, a new counselor. By all means do everything possible to keep your three year old safe. However, if your son is hurting his sibling, he may hurt himself next. This matter needs attention quickly.

Therapist doesn't like the drug use. Honestly, I don't either, but to my knowledge he doesn't do it in front of the kids. Dad lives with his mother and current wife, they are non users, which is why I let them go.

Therapist wants to meet with dad, my insurance won't cover him being there. I can barely afford for my son to go, I sure can't pay for dad. Dad can't/won't pay for it either.

Son is being coached on his behavior, dad is encouraging it.

Therapist has been a positive influence on my son. Excellent behavior for days after a visit.

I agree that this is a serious matter and I am very concerned. Talking to dad yet AGAIN this weekend and am considering supervision.

 

[abstract99]

Well first you should visit this site: http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/oddcd/oddcdpamphlet.htm
This is a good website that will answer a lot of questions about the disorder. It gives examples of case studies and what can be done to treat the disorder.

It seems to me that it would not be a good idea that your son be removed from your fathers care. This might just be him lashing out from the divorce. I would go to another psychologist that specialises in this kind of thing. I reccomend that both of the parents attend these sessions. the paragraph that you should focus on in the website is this:
My father in law says the whole problem is my husband and I. My daughter convinced him that she is a victim of uncaring parents. How often does this happen?
Too often! Children and adolescents with ODD produce strong feelings in people. They are trying to get a reaction out of people, and they are often successful. Common ones are: inciting spouses to fight with each other and not focus on the child, making outsiders believe that all the fault lies with the parents, making certain susceptible people believe that they can "save" the child by doing everything the child wants, setting parents against grandparents, setting teachers against parents, and inciting the parents to abuse the child. I frequently see children with ODD in which teachers and parents and sometimes others are all fighting amongst each other rather than with the child who is causing all the turmoil in the first place.

You should both do your best to show the child that his actions are not going to hurt anybody but himself. Perople with a defiance disorder (my sister had this when she was younger) tend to be more encouraged when they see that their actions are getting the results that they want. It seems like a case of tough love here.

 

[Rushia]

Well first you should visit this site: http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/oddcd/oddcdpamphlet.htm
This is a good website that will answer a lot of questions about the disorder. It gives examples of case studies and what can be done to treat the disorder.

It seems to me that it would not be a good idea that your son be removed from your fathers care. This might just be him lashing out from the divorce. I would go to another psychologist that specialises in this kind of thing. I reccomend that both of the parents attend these sessions. the paragraph that you should focus on in the website is this:
My father in law says the whole problem is my husband and I. My daughter convinced him that she is a victim of uncaring parents. How often does this happen?
Too often! Children and adolescents with ODD produce strong feelings in people. They are trying to get a reaction out of people, and they are often successful. Common ones are: inciting spouses to fight with each other and not focus on the child, making outsiders believe that all the fault lies with the parents, making certain susceptible people believe that they can "save" the child by doing everything the child wants, setting parents against grandparents, setting teachers against parents, and inciting the parents to abuse the child. I frequently see children with ODD in which teachers and parents and sometimes others are all fighting amongst each other rather than with the child who is causing all the turmoil in the first place.

You should both do your best to show the child that his actions are not going to hurt anybody but himself. Perople with a defiance disorder (my sister had this when she was younger) tend to be more encouraged when they see that their actions are getting the results that they want. It seems like a case of tough love here.

Thank you for the info, although this is info I already have. Stepdad, stepmom, teachers, therapist all working together to "retrain" my son with proper behavior. I have other proof (other than the therapist opinion), that this behavior was learned by his grandparents, encouraged by the father.

I DO NOT want to take him away from his father. I will be speaking to the father again this weekend, to stress how this is affecting our son.

My question is what are the legal issues I could face should the father take me to court if I decide to supervise visitation in my home until behavior is corrected?

 

[abstract99]

My question is what are the legal issues I could face should the father take me to court if I decide to supervise visitation in my home until behavior is corrected?

Well legally, if you both share joint legal (not physical) custody of the child you cannot. You can file an emergency petition for custody though to request the supervised visitation. And once again MAKE SURE that your son does not see anybody react to his actions. If he see's that he is going to get his way then he will keep doing it until he has you so manipulated that you will do anything he wants you to do. I would find a place in the house, that has no toys or TV or people to keep him company, where he can sit and think about his actions. The only thing that stopped my sister was when she saw that she was not getting the reactions that she wanted.

 

[Rushia]

Well legally, if you both share joint legal (not physical) custody of the child you cannot. You can file an emergency petition for custody though to request the supervised visitation. And once again MAKE SURE that your son does not see anybody react to his actions. If he see's that he is going to get his way then he will keep doing it until he has you so manipulated that you will do anything he wants you to do. I would find a place in the house, that has no toys or TV or people to keep him company, where he can sit and think about his actions. The only thing that stopped my sister was when she saw that she was not getting the reactions that she wanted.

That's just it, I have sole legal/physical custody and the father has reasonable visitation. This is the exact wording in our divorce decree.

As far as putting my son in a "time out", all he thinks at this point is that my hubby and I are "mean".

 

[abstract99]

As far as putting my son in a "time out", all he thinks at this point is that my hubby and I are "mean".

Tough crap for him I guess. He'll get over it. It won't kill him.

 

[Rushia]

Tough crap for him I guess. He'll get over it. It won't kill him.

LOL. We know. We don't care that he thinks we're mean. I'm just pointing out that he doesn't think about what he did, he just thinks about how mean we are.

 

[abstract99]

LOL. We know. We don't care that he thinks we're mean. I'm just pointing out that he doesn't think about what he did, he just thinks about how mean we are.

Have you tried written apologies? Or sentences. My parents used to make my sis write apologies to teachers and such that she hurt. She would not want to have to apologise again so it kept her from acting out. Also I forgot to mention.... she would lie to therapists to make them feel sorry for her (another reaction thing)

 

[tigger22472]

At 3 years old my now 11 year old was diagnosed with ODD. He used medication through his younger years to control it. I kept him on the meds for 3 years but found that the BEST recourse was being consistant. Not long before I removed the medicine he went through the divorce of his parents, his father moving away, his father rarely seeing him, his father not showing up half the time and the other half of the time listen to him talk badly about his mother. Today at 11 he does not act, he reacts and that is where most of his problems lie. I can not say that I saw anywhere in these posts as to how old your child is. Age can have a tremendous amount to do with this. You can not say for a FACT that this is a LEARNED fuction and that he in fact learned it from his father. I suggest as you said, talking to the father again but also as suggested get a second opinion. Your son will be a lot less affected if you can find a new way to deal with his behaviors then to take away his father. To be honest maybe he needs MORE time with dad. If it's as you believe he's picking this up from dad maybe he's doing it to make himself feel closer to his father because 24 hours in a 14 day period is not likely to have the severe effect that this therapist is saying and as I said I think it could POSSIBLY be from the LACK of time he has with dad.

 

[Rushia]

Have you tried written apologies? Or sentences. My parents used to make my sis write apologies to teachers and such that she hurt. She would not want to have to apologise again so it kept her from acting out. Also I forgot to mention.... she would lie to therapists to make them feel sorry for her (another reaction thing)

He's only 5. Writing would take forever and only annoy me in the end. It's mostly play therapy, kinda hard to lie.

 

[tigger22472]

He's only 5. Writing would take forever and only annoy me in the end. It's mostly play therapy, kinda hard to lie.

K.. we have an age now... here's some questions I have...

1. How long have you and his father been apart? You may have already said and sorry if I missed it.
2. Do both your son and your 3 yr old have the same father?
3. If #2 is yes, how does the father treat your daughter? meaning is there any special treatment given to her.
4. How long has this behavior gone on?
5. Has there been any significant changes in any households lately?