Regarding my rights in repossession of my firearms from my college

[blueangel42]

Your story raises quite a few issues that are somewhat unclear and possibly ripe for (expensive) litigation.


The campus police somehow took possession of your guns. You don't describe how that possession took place. The 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable seizures, but the 2nd amendment does not contain the word "reasonable" or any variation of it. It simply states that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So while it may be quite reasonable for the police to take away your guns, doing so may still have infringed on your right to keep and bear arms. Flatly refusing to return them, after you've been "cleared", may also violate your right to due process.

but . . .

The fact that they will release them to your father almost makes this moot. I believe you would be foolish to litigate the situation when you already have a cheaper and faster alternative.

If you insist in litigating, I suggest you contact the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and see if there's an attorney in your area willing to take up your cause. I don't know if they're looking to take up this issue at this time.

One last point - if this is a private college, and the campus police are NOT state actors, you'll find your case will go nowhere fast. The Bill of Rights protects against public, not private, actors.

Thank you for your input; the college is public. You share the same view of my parents when you say it would be foolish to litigate the situation when we have a cheaper and faster alternative, and considering how my primary goal is to finish my degree at school, litigation at this point would not further that goal. That being said, I am still curious as to if my rights to due process were infringed after the weapons are cleared only to be obtained by my parents. My parents who know me very well and whom I have a close relationship with are not worried I'm a danger to myself and would act irresponsibly with my weapons, so in the event they pick them up they will be returned to me. Though not my main priority, I am still curious as to if the officer with authority over the weapons can indeed decide against the medical professionals stances and withhold the firearms from me believing I'm still a risk. Honestly if he can do that I'm perfectly fine with things being followed according to the law, and even if he can't, we will likely just continue to follow his course of action in order to not jeopardize my studies at the school. But for my own piece of mind and the principle of the matter, I'd like to know one way or another regardless of if we go to litigation or not. Even if I have a case, expensive litigation is not an option. But think I will contact SAF and see what their thoughts are. If anything it will help give me some closure to this whole situation

 

[quincy]

Thank you for your input; the college is public. You share the same view of my parents when you say it would be foolish to litigate the situation when we have a cheaper and faster alternative, and considering how my primary goal is to finish my degree at school, litigation at this point would not further that goal. That being said, I am still curious as to if my rights to due process were infringed after the weapons are cleared only to be obtained by my parents. My parents who know me very well and whom I have a close relationship with are not worried I'm a danger to myself and would act irresponsibly with my weapons, so in the event they pick them up they will be returned to me. Though not my main priority, I am still curious as to if the officer with authority over the weapons can indeed decide against the medical professionals stances and withhold the firearms from me believing I'm still a risk. Honestly if he can do that I'm perfectly fine with things being followed according to the law, and even if he can't, we will likely just continue to follow his course of action in order to not jeopardize my studies at the school. But for my own piece of mind and the principle of the matter, I'd like to know one way or another regardless of if we go to litigation or not. Even if I have a case, expensive litigation is not an option. But think I will contact SAF and see what their thoughts are. If anything it will help give me some closure to this whole situation

The guns legally can be held during the course of a police investigation, if the guns are considered evidence of a crime.

 

[Zigner]

... even if he can't, we will likely just continue to follow his course of action in order to not jeopardize my studies at the school.

In other words, this is all just hypothetical.

 

[quincy]

In other words, this is all just hypothetical.

If there is an issue with the return of the guns, or if charged with a crime for having guns on campus, blueangel will want to consult with an attorney in Maryland. Everything right now is mere speculation and a bit of a waste of time.

 

[blueangel42]

In other words, this is all just hypothetical.

Basically, yeah. But in the event, worst case scenario I'm expelled, my parents will have a big problem with that and we would likely then seek litigation.

 

[quincy]

Basically, yeah. But in the event, worst case scenario I'm expelled, my parents will have a big problem with that and we would likely then seek litigation.

Advice has been provided should that occur.

Good luck.

 

[Zigner]

Basically, yeah. But in the event, worst case scenario I'm expelled, my parents will have a big problem with that and we would likely then seek litigation.

You brought concealed guns on to the school grounds...why do you feel that you couldn't be expelled?

 

[Zigner]

I don't believe you've confirmed the state, so I'll pick an east-coast state and school at random:

From http://www.smcm.edu/tothepoint/weapons-and-dangerous-objects/


Weapons and Dangerous Objects
St. Mary’s College of Maryland prohibits the unauthorized use or possession of weapons and other dangerous objects on College property and at College-sponsored activities or events. This includes such items on one’s person, in one’s on-campus residence, in one’s automobile on campus, or in any other property or personal effects of any student at any time. For the purpose of this policy, the term “weapon” includes any potentially dangerous object or substance including, but not limited to, any firearm (including any weapon or instrument from which a shot, projectile, or other object may be discharged by force, whether operable or inoperable, loaded or unloaded); any deadly weapon, defined as any instrument, item, or material readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury; any BB gun, pellet gun, air rifle/pistol, paint gun, sword (including decorative), or other martial arts weapon; any bomb (or other explosive material), any knife with a blade longer than three inches (other than a kitchen knife used exclusively for food preparation/consumption in residences with kitchens), switchblade, billy club, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, slingshot, razor, bicycle chain, or ice pick; or any explosive
chemical or device including a substance or a combination of substances possessed or prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration, or detonation, including fireworks and illegal or potentially dangerous chemicals; or any instrument which by its nature or circumstances present may be reasonably construed as a weapon.

The College reserves the right to confiscate prohibited items and to hold those items for appropriate disposition. Students found responsible for a violation of this policy may be subject to housing contract revocation and/or suspension or expulsion from the College and may also be referred to law enforcement authorities for criminal action.

 

[quincy]

I don't believe you've confirmed the state, so I'll pick an east-coast state and school at random:

From http://www.smcm.edu/tothepoint/weapons-and-dangerous-objects/


Weapons and Dangerous Objects
St. Mary’s College of Maryland prohibits the unauthorized use or possession of weapons and other dangerous objects on College property and at College-sponsored activities or events. This includes such items on one’s person, in one’s on-campus residence, in one’s automobile on campus, or in any other property or personal effects of any student at any time. For the purpose of this policy, the term “weapon” includes any potentially dangerous object or substance including, but not limited to, any firearm (including any weapon or instrument from which a shot, projectile, or other object may be discharged by force, whether operable or inoperable, loaded or unloaded); any deadly weapon, defined as any instrument, item, or material readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury; any BB gun, pellet gun, air rifle/pistol, paint gun, sword (including decorative), or other martial arts weapon; any bomb (or other explosive material), any knife with a blade longer than three inches (other than a kitchen knife used exclusively for food preparation/consumption in residences with kitchens), switchblade, billy club, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, slingshot, razor, bicycle chain, or ice pick; or any explosive
chemical or device including a substance or a combination of substances possessed or prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration, or detonation, including fireworks and illegal or potentially dangerous chemicals; or any instrument which by its nature or circumstances present may be reasonably construed as a weapon.

The College reserves the right to confiscate prohibited items and to hold those items for appropriate disposition. Students found responsible for a violation of this policy may be subject to housing contract revocation and/or suspension or expulsion from the College and may also be referred to law enforcement authorities for criminal action.

East coast college and university policies on weapons are similar and there are state laws on the possession of guns on school property.

I think expulsion is a good possibility and the withholding of the guns probably due to both a school investigation and a police investigation.

Because blueangel has had this issue discussed on several different websites already, and most of what has been said on one is being repeated on others, I think this thread has probably run its course.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I've never had a history of violence, or been in a position where I've thought my rights my be infringed by those who are supposed to protect them. This is me coping with that

And that sums up you problem. First, you need to understand that odds are you broke the law by having the guns on campus. Second, those campus cops aren't their to protect your rights. They are there to maintain law and order.

 

[quincy]

And that sums up you problem. First, you need to understand that odds are you broke the law by having the guns on campus. Second, those campus cops aren't their to protect your rights. They are there to maintain law and order.

Blueangel will need to wait and see what happens. As Stevef indicated, there could be an issue with criminal charges over the seizure of the guns but there seems to be nothing that can prevent an expulsion for having the guns on a campus that prohibits them.

An attorney should be consulted in blueangel's area to discuss options, when the need arises.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Blueangel will need to wait and see what happens. As Stevef indicated, there could be an issue with criminal charges over the seizure of the guns but there seems to be nothing that can prevent an expulsion for having the guns on a campus that prohibits them.

An attorney should be consulted in blueangel's area to discuss options, when the need arises.

I doubt there is a state school in blueangel's area where it is legal to have a firearm. So there is little doubt he broke the law. But I wasn't really even addressing that issue with my comment. What I was addressing was his millennial entitlement attitude.

 

[quincy]

I doubt there is a state school in blueangel's area where it is legal to have a firearm. So there is little doubt he broke the law. But I wasn't really even addressing that issue with my comment. What I was addressing was his millennial entitlement attitude.

Ah. There is that.

My comment was mostly because blueangel has been given more than enough information from all of the websites combined where the concerns have been addressed. If blueangel cannot understand what has already been said, there is nothing more that can be added to make it clearer.

In other words, this thread is not going to be of any additional help. It seems time for it to be locked and for blueangel to find an attorney if/when charged/expelled/denied the return of the guns.