Return to court now, or wait and see?

[proud_parent]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa

Many of you know the situation with my SD's mother.

In Nov. 2007, supervised visits were ordered to occur at the maternal grandparents' home in Chicago through the end of Sep. 2008. Mom has not seen SD since March 2007. At the time the current order was entered, Mom was living in PA and indicated she was unable to exercise visitation as ordered for a variety of reasons. Then in March 2008, Mom declared in an email to Dad that she felt it was "detrimental to [SD] to continue telephone contact and to exercise my visitation rights" at this time. Mom subsequently announced to SD on the phone that SD could decide to go visit her when she's 18.

Mom's last phone contact with SD was in May 2008. Since then, her only attempts at contact have consisted of one short letter and three shorter emails (two of them in reply to emails initiated by Dad / SD), the last one on Aug. 1.



Well, end of September is fast approaching. Dad is worried that Mom, despite her recent lack of involvement, will suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and insist on resuming unsupervised visits. That sort of radical shift in behavior would be entirely within character for Mom.

Now, the kicker: Dad has good reason to believe that Mom and her husband have moved from PA back to the Midwest, although not to Iowa or Illinois. Our information suggests that the move took place three weeks ago. Mom mentioned nothing about moving in her last communication. (Perhaps not coincidentally, CSE had stepped up its enforcement efforts in the weeks between Mom's last contact and this suspected relocation .)

To further complicate matters, the grandparents have had no contact with SD since June. This began when Grandma spoke with SD about the grandparents' desire to obtain custody. Dad sent a letter to Grandma stating "[SD] loves you and her grandfather very much. I very much want her to continue a positive relationship with you. [However] It is completely inappropriate for you to discuss legal matters with a child. Please do not put [SD] in this position again." Grandma responded by sending SD a letter (eerily similar in tone to the conversation Mom had with SD in May) stating that she needed to step back and not see her so much anymore.


Dad therefore has a dilemma. He wonders whether it is better to a) return to court now to request that supervised visits be ordered to continue (with a new supervisor, if necessary), or b) wait for Mom to attempt something before he acts.

Before we suspected that Mom had left PA, Dad's attorney advised to wait for Mom to make the next move, as the order for travel of over 500 miles requires that Mom provide plane tickets not less than 7 days prior to the date of travel. If Mom were to pull a fast one and suddenly declare that she wants to exercise her winter break parenting time in PA, Dad would still have time to file ex parte before the travel date to have supervised visits continued. No reason for Dad to incur additional legal bills if Mom truly has no interest in ever exercising time with SD.

However, it now appears that Mom moved within a 500 mile radius of our home. If that is indeed the case (we haven't yet been able to confirm), the applicable clause of the order states that Mom is responsible for providing transportation from Dad's residence, and Dad is responsible for providing return transportation from Mom's residence. No time frame is specified for Mom to give notice when she wishes the winter break visit to begin. So Dad and I are now worried that Mom may show up on our doorstep some time during Christmas vacation and demand to take SD with her, and that Dad technically would be in contempt of the order if her refuses to let SD go.


What to do? Is this a situation in which Dad could or should file emergency ex-parte to have the order modified? If Dad needs to address this through usual channels, I'm not confident that Mom would be found and served and a hearing date established before December.

 

[CJane]

First of all, contempt is not something dad can BE in w/out a judge finding that he's in contempt. And to prove contempt, one must prove that the behavior is malicious.

I think Dad could refuse a visit as you describe and IF mom filed contempt for denied parenting time, Dad could easily prove that Mom has NOT followed the order for supervised visits, Dad does NOT know where she lives, etc. and if I were the judge, I wouldn't find that his behavior was malicious in any way.

Dad COULD file an ex parte, but I think it's likely the judge would adopt a 'wait and see' plan and not make a new order at this time.

 

[proud_parent]

First of all, contempt is not something dad can BE in w/out a judge finding that he's in contempt. And to prove contempt, one must prove that the behavior is malicious.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Perhaps I'm just nervous because Dad and I are both by the book sort of folks, so contemplating any action (justified or not) contrary to court orders makes us both uncomfortable.

Even though I think Dad is on solid ground legally, I worry about the practical aspects. Mom is the type who if turned away from our home would march to the local police station, give them a convincing sob story, and return with officers in tow to attempt to enforce the order. We live in a small town...I can imagine our local law enforcement agreeing to go with her to check things out. Any suggestions for defusing this volatile situation if it came about? (I know...it's a big "what if", but my sixth sense suggests we ought to be prepared.) I can only imagine kiddo standing there bewildered, crying, begging for Mommy not to leave her again and for Daddy to let her stay....

 

[CJane]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Perhaps I'm just nervous because Dad and I are both by the book sort of folks, so contemplating any action (justified or not) contrary to court orders makes us both uncomfortable.

Even though I think Dad is on solid ground legally, I worry about the practical aspects. Mom is the type who if turned away from our home would march to the local police station, give them a convincing sob story, and return with officers in tow to attempt to enforce the order. We live in a small town...I can imagine our local law enforcement agreeing to go with her to check things out. Any suggestions defusing this volatile situation if it came about? (I know...it's a big "what if", but my sixth sense suggests we ought to be prepared.) I can only imagine kiddo standing there bewildered, crying, begging for Mommy not to leave her again and for Daddy to let her stay....

Take a vacation over Christmas break?

Don't answer the door if she knocks.

I get being a rule follower. I am too. Like you wouldn't believe. Accidentally not following the court order makes me twitchy. But IN THIS CASE I think Dad's gonna be ok.

 

[milspecgirl]

If mom contacts first and expresses her intentions, file.
If she just shows up, ask child to go to her room, then call the police and step outside to talk to mom rationally (I am telling all this to dad- NOT SM) until the police get there.

 

[proud_parent]

If mom contacts first and expresses her intentions, file.
If she just shows up, ask child to go to her room, then call the police and step outside to talk to mom rationally (I am telling all this to dad- NOT SM) until the police get there.

Understood. I would not dream of engaging Mom in this scenario. I imagine I would be tucked away with kiddo and our toddler trying to distract them while Dad makes the phone call.

 

[proud_parent]

Take a vacation over Christmas break?

Now, there's an idea!

It's funny, I never would have thought of that. We are unrepentant homebodies. Every year, hubby's mom begs us to spend both Thanksgiving and Christmas break with her. We generally agree to one or two days at either Christmas or Thanksgiving, but we're pretty adamant that our family spends Christmas Eve and Christmas Day at our home or attending services at our church. (It's a holdover from our childhoods -- our fathers both insisted they weren't about to drag their families all over creation every Christmas, so we follow suit. ) In fact, we have a standing tradition that the day after Christmas is Pajama Day. Everyone gets a new set of jammies, and we sit around home all day playing games, reading stories, and watching movies together. Let everyone else line up at Wal-Mart at 6:00am to return gifts.


*sigh* Maybe we'll need to move Pajama Day this year.

 

[CJane]

Now, there's an idea!

It's funny, I never would have thought of that. We are unrepentant homebodies. Every year, hubby's mom begs us to spend both Thanksgiving and Christmas break with her. We generally agree to one or two days at either Christmas or Thanksgiving, but we're pretty adamant that our family spends Christmas Eve and Christmas Day at our home or attending services at our church. (It's a holdover from our childhoods -- our fathers both insisted they weren't about to drag their families all over creation every Christmas, so we follow suit. ) In fact, we have a standing tradition that the day after Christmas is Pajama Day. Everyone gets a new set of jammies, and we sit around home all day playing games, reading stories, and watching movies together. Let everyone else line up at Wal-Mart at 6:00am to return gifts.


*sigh* Maybe we'll need to move Pajama Day this year.

Any reason you can't have a special pajama day at Gramma's house?

I hate travelling for the holidays too. But this was my schedule last year:

Dec 22 drive 5 hours to D'man's mom's house.
Dec 23 drive 90 minutes to D'man's brother's house for Xmas dinner/gifts
Dec 23 LATE - drive 7 hourse (*should have been 4) back to KC in a BLIZZARD
Dec 24 At D'man's house for OUR Christmas/Wild's Bday
Dec 25 Drive 2 hours to my mom's house
Dec 26 Drive 2 hours home.

NEVER. EVER. AGAIN.

 

[proud_parent]

Any reason you can't have a special pajama day at Gramma's house?

Nope. IIRC we gave my MIL pajamas last Christmas, and a bathrobe a few years ago. Maybe we'll continue in that vein and call it a new tradition.

 

[proud_parent]

Lo and behold

Our source for information was correct. Dad and SD each got letters from Mom confirming that she has moved, near to kiddo's great-grandparents (and roughly 300 miles from us).

In one of the letters, both postmarked the 11th, Mom mentioned how much the great-grandparents miss kiddo and that next time they visit, Mom would call kiddo so that she could speak with them. "I think that may be next weekend," she wrote.

To her credit, Mom wasn't just posturing this time; she phoned this afternoon. Kiddo, however, was away at a friend's house on a play date. Mom was ticked off, even when Dad said he'd have kiddo call back. "Why isn't she home? I told you that I would call her this weekend! I wanted her to talk with her great-grandparents, and I'm at their place now."

Of course, Mom never called Dad to confirm a time to speak with kiddo, nor did she even mention the day she would call in her letter. Back when she was phoning weekly, Mom would call at 1:00 on Sundays; today she called at 1:40. Dad tried calmly to explain that he had only received the letter yesterday, that it wasn't specific as to a date or time, and that he judged it would be better for kiddo to keep her date with her friend than to sit around the entire weekend waiting for a phone call -- which, given Mom's track record, might not have come. I suspect the real reason Mom was pissed was not because kiddo was not immediately available, but that the great-grandparents would not get to witness her being all motherly. I'm not certain that they know that she has not been in contact, or that they are aware of the circumstances under which custody was changed.

So now kiddo just got off the phone with Mom. At the beginning of the call kiddo began apologizing for not getting to talk with her great-grandparents. Mom apparently drove back home after phoning here. Sad that this woman can drop out for four months and then guilt an eight-year-old for not being available at her beck and call. Mom told kiddo she will call back next Sunday so that she could speak with her great-grandparents then.


So, we'll see whether this is a blip on the radar, or whether Mom attempts more regular contact now. Kiddo is over the moon to know that Mom lives closer to us. I worry that she's already getting her hopes up anticipating that Mom will be a bigger part of her life now. I anticipate that once the newness of this wears off for Mom, she'll be back to her old behavior. I hope I'm wrong.

Just wait and hope for the best, I guess...

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Technically, if Mom had followed the court order and maintained contact, whose turn would it be for Winter Break?

And I do understand the part about being and out of a child's life with no consistency.

 

[milspecgirl]

I know where you are coming from.
Our "mom" came in and out of the picture for 9 years.

Is the child in counseling? It helped our daughter a TON to realize that it wasn't her fault, she wasn't bad, etc. It also taught her that her mom isn't a bad person (which is good when she considers 1/2 of her is her mom and you don't want to think you love a bad person), just a person not ready to be a full time mom.

Any chance dad can ask mom what her intentions are? Maybe asking if she would like to resume the supervised visitation? Maybe a call to mom that the child is confused cause mom told her she wasn't coming around anymore and now she is. Just that the child would like to know what to expect.

Otherwise, all you can do is wait and see. I am not saying go against a court order, but I know that in our case, when mom contacted after 2 years of no contact that she was coming to get d for visitation, my hubby told her no and immediately filed to modify. The judge never said a word to him cause he was not doing it maliciously against mom. Again, I am not suggesting disobeying a court order, but you may want to have an atty in mind and on hand to file a modification at the last minute if it comes to that

 

[proud_parent]

Technically, if Mom had followed the court order and maintained contact, whose turn would it be for Winter Break?

Mom is entitled to up to 7 consecutive days every winter break, with Christmas Eve and Christmas Day alternating between Mom and Dad in even and odd years.

That being the case, I think we'd be wise to plan to be home and to make kiddo available if Mom chooses to exercise. However, if Mom were to voice an intention to exercise ahead of time, Dad would return to court immediately to request supervised visits, as Mom has not exercised any physical parenting time for 18 months.

Which brings up another question: supposing this does happen, and further supposing that supervised visits are ordered to continue, would Dad's input be likely to be considered in selecting a supervisor? Even if the grandparents had not had a bit of a falling out with kiddo recently, they now live farther away (500 miles) from Mom than we do.

Dad agreed to Mom's parents being named the supervisors for the current order as SD had spent much time at their home and had (at that time) a very close relationship with them. I think it likely that Mom would now suggest the great-grandparents as supervisors given their proximity to Mom. However, the great-grandparents are in their seventies, at least one and perhaps both of them are in failing health (that's the reason Mom his given for moving closer to them), and I believe it has been over two years since kiddo has seen them.

Would a judge be likely to consider Dad's request for a different supervisor -- an approved center, for example -- under these circumstances? Or would s/he be more likely to favor family members as supervisors because of the distance involved?

 

[proud_parent]

I know where you are coming from.
Our "mom" came in and out of the picture for 9 years.

Is the child in counseling? It helped our daughter a TON to realize that it wasn't her fault, she wasn't bad, etc. It also taught her that her mom isn't a bad person (which is good when she considers 1/2 of her is her mom and you don't want to think you love a bad person), just a person not ready to be a full time mom.

Kiddo has worked with a play therapist, though not since June. I'm confident she'd be happy to resume seeing SD if Dad suggests it or if SD requests to do so. I think Dad intends to send her an email update this week.

Any chance dad can ask mom what her intentions are? Maybe asking if she would like to resume the supervised visitation? Maybe a call to mom that the child is confused cause mom told her she wasn't coming around anymore and now she is. Just that the child would like to know what to expect.

Oh, he will definitely ask. I imagine SD will ask her Mom what's up as well. And I anticipate it will be more of the same: we're really busy right now settling in from the move, I have to help hubby get his business set up (or perhaps this time "we have to help your great-grandparents, they're not doing very well"), the doctors are trying to figure out what to do to help stop my shaking, etc. Even if Mom has a plan in mind, the most concrete response we can expect from her is, "We'll just have to wait and see how Mommy's doing and whether she feels up to it or not..."

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Someone has mentioned about dad talking with mom about her intentions. Believe me, I understand the fear of poking at a snake.

Dad could very well file a motion for the supervised visits to be continued based on mom's lack of involvement. The impetus can be that it is Sept 2008 and supervision was set to stop. If child hasn't seen mom in 18 months, that is a large percentage of her life. How old is the child?