Seniors read concerning "MI- custody when one parent moves away suddenly"

[gam]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I was reading through threads and found this recent thread titled "MI- custody when one parent moves away suddenly".

No one asked what kind of custody mom and dad had, was it joint legal?

Some words for you all to google, Michigan, joint legal, move away. After you get done googling tell me why it is important to ask if the case from Mi involving a move away is joint legal? It's a must when the moving party is a NCP, Mi's move away law is very different then the majority of states.

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I was reading through threads and found this recent thread titled "MI- custody when one parent moves away suddenly".

No one asked what kind of custody mom and dad had, was it joint legal?

Some words for you all to google, Michigan, joint legal, move away. After you get done googling tell me why it is important to ask if the case from Mi involving a move away is joint legal? It's a must when the moving party is a NCP, Mi's move away law is very different then the majority of states.

I have no idea what happened to your Wheaties this morning, but okay.

You appear to be more than a tad familiar with her history.

Refresher:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/parenting-time-changes-564067.html

Perhaps that's what other posters did, too.

PS. I'll buy the donuts in the morning.

 

[Silverplum]

I can haz donuts?

 

[Proserpina]

I can haz donuts?

Yes, yes you can! I mean it's not like I can eat them these days.

But seriously, I'm just not understanding the chastisement.

 

[Silverplum]

Yes, yes you can! I mean it's not like I can eat them these days.

But seriously, I'm just not understanding the chastisement.

I'll be stalking you tomorrow!

Mrs. Plum is shockingly immune to chastisement. (Aren't we all? Humans, I mean.)

 

[stealth2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I was reading through threads and found this recent thread titled "MI- custody when one parent moves away suddenly".

No one asked what kind of custody mom and dad had, was it joint legal?

Some words for you all to google, Michigan, joint legal, move away. After you get done googling tell me why it is important to ask if the case from Mi involving a move away is joint legal? It's a must when the moving party is a NCP, Mi's move away law is very different then the majority of states.

If you wanted us to comment on (what I guess is) an old thread, you could at least provide the link. Otherwise? Go pound sand. I'm not in the mood for silly games. Especially by someone who's been MIA for a year.

 

[Ohiogal]

If you wanted us to comment on (what I guess is) an old thread, you could at least provide the link. Otherwise? Go pound sand. I'm not in the mood for silly games. Especially by someone who's been MIA for a year.

I think this is it:
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/mi-custody-when-one-parent-moves-away-suddenly-615143.html

 

[gam]

If you wanted us to comment on (what I guess is) an old thread, you could at least provide the link. Otherwise? Go pound sand. I'm not in the mood for silly games. Especially by someone who's been MIA for a year.

Thread is 2 weeks old, OP of the thread is a lurker so she posted, and most of the advice given in the thread was not good if she has joint legal. Hoping she is a lurking still and sees that she should look into her case some more.

I'll sum it up for ya, joint legal NEITHER party can move either of the child's legal residence without the courts permission, the move away law must be in all orders, or some other kind of language directing the parties(which a Judge has to approve). So joint legal needs to be asked, and it needs to be asked if other language was used and exactly what that language is.

I'm sorry it was late, I'm short on time, I was not chastising or playing games. I wanted you guys to go read it yourself, didn't have time to google it and if your looking it up yourself and reading it yourself, it sticks in your head better. I've posted the link and the law many times here and it's always forgotten.

OP is in the circuit court next to mine, they rule exactly the same way. Her court is the one that made the ruling on the other MI case your all posting about here. I've sat through many court cases on this subject recently, 1 of them in her court. NCP in OP's case is in contempt of the court order, he didn't get mom's permission to move, so he needed to get the courts permission. They crack down hard on this, custody is taken away, parenting time suspended or supervised or only allowed in the state of Mi.

Not sure what my MIA status has to do with anything, the move away law has not changed in a year in Mi. Perhaps that was to dig at me cause you thought I was chastising you guys or playing games, not the case, sorry for giving off that vibe. I also combined some of the other comments into this reply without quoting them, short on time and I don't remember how to do more then 1 quote.

 

[stealth2]

Thread is 2 weeks old, OP of the thread is a lurker so she posted, and most of the advice given in the thread was not good if she has joint legal. Hoping she is a lurking still and sees that she should look into her case some more.

I'll sum it up for ya, joint legal NEITHER party can move either of the child's legal residence without the courts permission, the move away law must be in all orders, or some other kind of language directing the parties(which a Judge has to approve). So joint legal needs to be asked, and it needs to be asked if other language was used and exactly what that language is.

I'm sorry it was late, I'm short on time, I was not chastising or playing games. I wanted you guys to go read it yourself, didn't have time to google it and if your looking it up yourself and reading it yourself, it sticks in your head better. I've posted the link and the law many times here and it's always forgotten.

OP is in the circuit court next to mine, they rule exactly the same way. Her court is the one that made the ruling on the other MI case your all posting about here. I've sat through many court cases on this subject recently, 1 of them in her court. NCP in OP's case is in contempt of the court order, he didn't get mom's permission to move, so he needed to get the courts permission. They crack down hard on this, custody is taken away, parenting time suspended or supervised or only allowed in the state of Mi.

Not sure what my MIA status has to do with anything, the move away law has not changed in a year in Mi. Perhaps that was to dig at me cause you thought I was chastising you guys or playing games, not the case, sorry for giving off that vibe. I also combined some of the other comments into this reply without quoting them, short on time and I don't remember how to do more then 1 quote.

Yeah, you were playing games and chastising. You could've posted whatever you posted above to start with. Not that I bothered reading it. Sorry - I doubt anyone who actually spends time trying to help appreciates fingers being wagged by someone who doesn't.

 

[gam]

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vwva4np1w2bftwpk40qs4fi2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-722-31

(1) A child whose parental custody is governed by court order has, for the purposes of this section, a legal residence with each parent. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a parent of a child whose custody is governed by court order shall not change a legal residence of the child to a location that is more than 100 miles from the child's legal residence at the time of the commencement of the action in which the order is issued.

Just a piece of it quoted. It's different then the normal, it applies to both parents. If one parent has sole custody it does not apply, however a parent with sole can move anywhere in MI even if it's over the 100 miles without getting courts permission, but they need the courts permission still to move out of MI with the child. Not in the law with the link above but there is case law on it(sorry not good at digging up case law so can't provide link). That case law is followed, so a CP with sole must seek the courts permission to move out of state. I do not know, nor have I run across case law, where CP has sole and NCP moves out of state if they would still need courts permission.

It's a must for anyone in a custody situation in MI to read their order concerning move aways. Failure to follow your order on this subject is contempt, the other parent does not have to do anything outside of their current order. I've recently seen many NCP's get burned badly in court because they moved to another state without getting the courts permission. Most do not understand this part of MI law, including many MI lawyers, so be careful and just get the other parents permission in writing or seek the courts permission prior to moving.

 

[Proserpina]

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vwva4np1w2bftwpk40qs4fi2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-722-31



Just a piece of it quoted. It's different then the normal, it applies to both parents. If one parent has sole custody it does not apply, however a parent with sole can move anywhere in MI even if it's over the 100 miles without getting courts permission, but they need the courts permission still to move out of MI with the child. Not in the law with the link above but there is case law on it(sorry not good at digging up case law so can't provide link). That case law is followed, so a CP with sole must seek the courts permission to move out of state. I do not know, nor have I run across case law, where CP has sole and NCP moves out of state if they would still need courts permission.

It's a must for anyone in a custody situation in MI to read their order concerning move aways. Failure to follow your order on this subject is contempt, the other parent does not have to do anything outside of their current order. I've recently seen many NCP's get burned badly in court because they moved to another state without getting the courts permission. Most do not understand this part of MI law, including many MI lawyers, so be careful and just get the other parents permission in writing or seek the courts permission prior to moving.

Just so I'm clear, from the wording provided.

Any child who has two active parents has two legal residences regardless of the parenting time spit - correct?

I'm going somewhere very specific with this (likely later on).

 

[gam]

Yeah, you were playing games and chastising. You could've posted whatever you posted above to start with. Not that I bothered reading it. Sorry - I doubt anyone who actually spends time trying to help appreciates fingers being wagged by someone who doesn't.

If I wanted to wag my finger at any of you, I would have OUTRIGHT WAGGED IT. I've never backed down on that, I've never secretly chastised or dug at anyone, I have never played games here, I just say whatever outright. Honestly I reread my first post, I see nothing that leads one to the conclusion that I was chastising anyone. But I apologize for whatever is in that post that led you to believe I was.

It was somewhere around 2 am, I was tired, while reading that thread(no one specific poster)no one asked what kind of custody was in the case. That stuck out to me as I've been in 2 different circuit courts(one being the court OP is in)recently with this as the subject matter.

I looked for the easy access to a link, but I've never saved it. I then just said google the following words, cause that is how I always run across it when I need to find it. Even then I have trouble finding the exact law, I can sit on the Michigan site that has all our laws all day and not find the law I'm looking for. Honestly I was hoping when I looked this morning that someone else had googled it and provided it, lol, I was being lazy, tired and just wanted to go to bed.

I recently have sat through a couple cases concerning move aways when the NCP moves. They are still ongoing they are not going well at all for the NCP's.

Now the law is funky, I've discussed it on another site that Pro frequents and she participated in that discussion. Nowhere online do you see on none of the lawyer sites anyone saying anything about the law also applying to NCP's. Now I thought it always did when I read it, however most I've asked didn't think' so, that includes lawyers in Mi. I always intended to get Ohiogals take on it, but forgot about it.

Was not until it came up in the 2 cases above that I knew 100% what the correct answer was. It's fresh in my head, I was reading the thread and wanted you guys to see it. Dang it's more of a dig at me, since I'm the one who lives in Mi, since I've been online posting Mi advice for the past 11 years and I never knew or didn't bother to find the correct answer. I've seen it posted wrong on all kinds of legal advice sites, I've seen it not mentioned at all where Mi lawyers have a blog about it on their sites, all they talk about is the CP moving. It always bugged me cause I was pretty sure I was reading it right but could never get a for sure answer.

The way Mi has that law written, can be deadly(well not deadly but deadly to your case) to a NCP if they do not know it. I was excited in the middle of the night to share it. Fault me for being lazy, fault me for not being around for a year, but read the darn thing, understand it, so your posting it to others correctly.

 

[gam]

Just so I'm clear, from the wording provided.

Any child who has two active parents has two legal residences regardless of the parenting time spit - correct?

I'm going somewhere very specific with this (likely later on).

Yes 2 legal residences regardless of the parenting time split.

 

[stealth2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I was reading through threads and found this recent thread titled "MI- custody when one parent moves away suddenly".

No one asked what kind of custody mom and dad had, was it joint legal?

Some words for you all to google, Michigan, joint legal, move away. After you get done googling tell me why it is important to ask if the case from Mi involving a move away is joint legal? It's a must when the moving party is a NCP, Mi's move away law is very different then the majority of states.

Right.

You did OP no favors.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I've been following this since my court orders were out of Michigan. Now, in MY court order, this specific verbiage was never there:

There are specific statutes in Michigan that require every final order or judgment with minor children to state that:

You must petition the Court if you wish to change the domicile / residence of the child / children from the state of Michigan.
If the parents both have legal custody, and one of them wishes to move more than 100 miles away from the other parent, they must either have the agreement with the other party or petition the Court.

This did NOT appear in ANY of my court orders and it covered 16 years (we finally aged out 8 months ago.) The OP could very well NOT have it.

This is the part that most are NOT aware of (thank you Gam):
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(evlli1j2px1u4mqepmeopw1f))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-722-31

722.31 Legal residence change of child whose parental custody governed by court order.
Sec. 11.

(1) A child whose parental custody is governed by court order has, for the purposes of this section, a legal residence with each parent. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a parent of a child whose custody is governed by court order shall not change a legal residence of the child to a location that is more than 100 miles from the child's legal residence at the time of the commencement of the action in which the order is issued.

(2) A parent's change of a child's legal residence is not restricted by subsection (1) if the other parent consents to, or if the court, after complying with subsection (4), permits, the residence change. This section does not apply if the order governing the child's custody grants sole legal custody to 1 of the child's parents.

(3) This section does not apply if, at the time of the commencement of the action in which the custody order is issued, the child's 2 residences were more than 100 miles apart. This section does not apply if the legal residence change results in the child's 2 legal residences being closer to each other than before the change.

Now, under #2, if the other parent CONSENTS, they are NOT required to go to court. Ultimately, court papers do need to be filed to change parenting time.

I was aware of this little provision because it allowed my child to consider Michigan schools if she wanted to brave the cold and snow again. Ultimately, she opted to stay here in Florida. I just never realized that it restricted an NCP from moving further than 100 miles if the other parent objected.