Structural Engineers

[Curious2134]

What is the name of your state? Missouri

We had a chimney recently built and while I am not a structural engineer, it seemed likely the foundation wasn't adequate.

I hired a firm, top in the search results list for my area in no particular order, and they worked with the installation company to obtain photos and make my report and gave their stamp of approval. The installation company had already had a meeting about the report's contents before I even read it. I did not send or use this report but complained to the engineering firm and stated it's my report that I paid for and the installation company should have had no influence over it at all.

A few weeks later I gave them further information that wasn't in the photos or considered and asked for a re-evaluation. They replied with a ridiculous answer, even stating my foundation alone with three pieces of rebar could support two stories of bricks without any supporting soil on the 4" slab. I argued that this was so absurd I couldn't even visualize it, so I just stopped communicating with them.

Hired a different structural engineer and he came on site, measured, looked up the specific brick details, slope of the ground... and his report says that the foundation is inadequate and gave two resolutions. Supporting piers or after the fact footings and gave the specifics. If I don't do either, it will rotate away from the home.

The installation company knows the first inspection and knows the first engineering firm placed their stamp on it. But it's clearly not an adequate installation. The second structural engineer points out the items it needs to prevent failure. Am I allowed to use either report? Or neither? Or are structural engineering reports just information anyway and really not of any other use?

Perhaps I should have not hired either engineering firms but instead used that money towards putting in footers I believed was lacking to begin with.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to your other recent thread about your chimney:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/threads/chimney-and-subcontracting.664497/

The structural engineering reports are opinions based on the experience and expertise of the engineers doing the inspections. I don’t know for what purpose you wish to “use” them but, sure, the inspection reports can be made available to you.

 

[Curious2134]

Yes I know what I wrote before, more has happened since and I considered this a different question. I guess I was naive about the reports by somehow thinking the report helped the homeowner get a well constructed item. Everyone tells me to have a structural engineering company look at it - but I've come to realize they are flawed too. It sort of dawned on me the other day that it's all just information for me to argue about something I'm not sure of. A report certainly doesn't mean the installers have to agree or even if they do agree, perform any fix. Thought I'd ask anyway to verify so I can decide the future. I shouldn't have done either report and just did the flashing repairs and installed a footing. Thanks for your time.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes I know what I wrote before, more has happened since and I considered this a different question. I guess I was naive about the reports by somehow thinking the report helped the homeowner get a well constructed item. Everyone tells me to have a structural engineering company look at it - but I've come to realize they are flawed too. It sort of dawned on me the other day that it's all just information for me to argue about something I'm not sure of. A report certainly doesn't mean the installers have to agree or even if they do agree, perform any fix. Thought I'd ask anyway to verify so I can decide the future. I shouldn't have done either report and just did the flashing repairs and installed a footing. Thanks for your time.

As Quincy said, the reports are opinions from experts. Where an after the fact report could have value is in a court of law. In other words, if you were to sue the company for doing what you believed was shoddy work the reports could be evidence for the case. Otherwise, the reports have only as much value as the parties wish to give them. Here though, you have two different structural engineers giving two different opinions so unless you go with a third engineer to break the tie, you really don't have anything useful for court either.

Now, it might have been more useful to hire a structural engineer ahead of time to decide what work needed to be done to get the end result that you wanted and then structured your contract with the company around that. That is what happened when I had a house fire and some of the roof joists needed to be repaired/replaced. The builder got a structural engineer out there to tell them what should be done to get the required results.
That isn't what happened in your case though, so now your choices are doing whatever repairs are needed and then either suing to get reimbursed or not suing to get reimbursed.

 

[Curious2134]

Now you tell me ha. I'll just drop trying to show it's installed wrong because it's primarily a waste of time, and instead chalk this up to yet another life lesson. But still... it's installed wrong Sorry for all the other people who are getting screwed.

 

[Bali Hai Again]

Now you tell me ha. I'll just drop trying to show it's installed wrong because it's primarily a waste of time, and instead chalk this up to yet another life lesson. But still... it's installed wrong Sorry for all the other people who are getting screwed.

Worked with professional engineers (P.E.) for many years and designed work-arounds for their lack of common sense screwups. It would have saved you a lot of grief if you researched and did the project yourself as long as you followed building codes.

 

[quincy]

Yes I know what I wrote before, more has happened since and I considered this a different question. I guess I was naive about the reports by somehow thinking the report helped the homeowner get a well constructed item. Everyone tells me to have a structural engineering company look at it - but I've come to realize they are flawed too. It sort of dawned on me the other day that it's all just information for me to argue about something I'm not sure of. A report certainly doesn't mean the installers have to agree or even if they do agree, perform any fix. Thought I'd ask anyway to verify so I can decide the future. I shouldn't have done either report and just did the flashing repairs and installed a footing. Thanks for your time.

I provided the link to your previous thread for informational purposes only, to give those not familiar with your situation some background. I figured you probably already knew what you had previously written.

Structural engineer reports have value but it is important to have these inspections conducted by unbiased professionals. The first structural engineer report could raise some question about objectivity because of the engineer’s prior relationship with the installation company. You could have a third professional provide you with another objective assessment to see if the third engineer’s report agrees with the second engineer - but it doesn’t sound like you are anxious to pursue this further.