the state took my son

[mkultra]

What is the name of your state? NJ

I'll try and make this as short as possible, though its a long and traumatic story. DYFS, which is my states agency regarding child protection, recently was awarded custody of my son. How they got involved? My girlfriend used a drug while in her ninth month of pregnancy. The baby was born positive for toxicology. The hospital alerted DYFS. They then came to visit us at home. Interviewed us both and gave us urine tests, which came back negative. The baby has been in the hospital for 5 weeks now since his birth, for unrelated reasons. He was medically cleared to come home by his doctors last week, but DYFS suprised us and quickly stepped in and took us to court. The judge ruled in their favor and granted them legal and physical custody.

Though it is reasonable to deny the mother have access to the child due to her neglecting to care for him properly while he was still in the womb, it is unreasonable to deny me, his father, my rights to have my child. some of the reasons DYFS presented to the judge against me were: (1) I admitted to smoking pot 2 months ago, although 2 urine tests they gave me both came back negative. They felt I should enter a treatment program, though I have no history of drug/alchohol abuse and never taken any other drug besides and occasional joint. (2) I failed to protect my son while in our care, although I had no idea my girlfriend had taken any drugs while pregnant and I only found out a few days after he was born when DYFS got involved. That's when she admitted to me and naturally I was furious. (3) DYFS had a nurse practioner call his hospital where he has been cared for from the time he was born. Based on a phone conversation she had with 2 social workers at the hospital, she determined my son is medicallt fragile and needs special care. She recommended he be placed in a Special Home Service Provider foster home. (4) I called the nurse when the social worker at his hospital told us of her recommendations. i asked her a series of questions and tried to access her position regarding her recommendations. the conversation ended amicably. So I thought. She filed a police report against me for harrasment and said she felt her life in danger because the nature of my call was done in a threatening manner.

Facts: My son was born in NYC. I live in Jersey. The reason the case was reffered to NJ is because we expressed our willingness to have him com live with me. I expressed to DYFS my desire to take custody of him over his mother and told them of a plan to have his maternal grandmother come live with me to care for him while I go to work everyday. They disregarded that. Now I have to fight for custody against the state.

The judge did order DYFS to investigate the possibility of my son being placed in my home with the grandmother pending furhter hearings. DYFS has been reluctant to do so because of the nurses (wrong) diagnosis of him as being medically fragile. They insists we are not capable of caring for him. They made certain requirements of me. I had to take a CPR class for infants which I did yesterday. I also enrolled myself in a treatment program and started weekly meetings.

The main obstacle now is this nurses recommendations. In my opinion and based on conversations and research I've done, I beleive her diagnosis was illegal. This is where I need help. She gathered her information from 2 phone conversations with social workers. She never went to physically see my son. As far as I know, she hasn't examined his charts or medical records, because we weren't informed of any third party request of his records. The doctors and nurses at his hospital have no knowledge of such requests. Also, his doctor, who has treated him from his birth states that her assesment is wrong. She says he is not mediaclly fragile and has given me a letter to that end.

Was this nurses recommendation legal? Is her diagnosis correct? What legal recourse do I have against this nurse? I feel my rights as a competent father have been violated. I've been assigned a public defender but have had no contact with her since the court ruling. Please help.

I want to father my child.

mk

 

[rmet4nzkx]

This is difficult.
Because of the child endangerment, no permission is required for the nurse to make her assessment, however to make that assessment based on conversations with social workers that opposes the expert testimony of the child's doctor, render's her assessment beyond her scope of practice, but that doesn't help you right now nor does having a public defender. Have you tried to contact the social workers at the hospital and explain that their conversation has been misconstrewed by the RN in NJ and the doctor's reccommondaiton is being ignored? Perhaps the hospital will assist you in getting an injunction in NY to prevent the removal to NJ since NY has jurisdiction. YOu really need an atorney to help you if you are not able to enter testimony. DO you actually have sworn declarations from the Doctor? You could petition the court in NY to appoint a GAL to represent your child. Where does your mother live now? What special care does your child require? At what week in the pregnancy was the child born, how many pounds at birth and weight now? Have you filed to establish paternity or signed acknowledgement of paternity? In what state?

I have some other questions.
What was the substance mom tested + for?
Did she have any problems during pregnancy?
Did she have itching?

 

[LdiJ]

You most sincerely need a good attorney. Please don't attempt to fight CPS without one. Borrow the money if you have to do so.

 

[stealth2]

Lawyer up, dude.

 

[mkultra]

rmet4nzkx

thanks for reading. I realize I'm in a difficult postion. I'll try and answer all your questions.

1. I did inform the social workers and the doctor. They were appalled at her assessment. The social worker insists there is no way she could've made that determination based on their conversation. The doctor says her diagnosis is false.

2. I do have a letter from the doctor stating he is medically sound and should not be considered fragile or with special needs. I have 6 letters from various nurses and social workers in NY with nothing but high recommendations for us.

3. The maternal grandmother has moved in with me to help take care of my son incase he is placed with me, while I go to work.

4. According to my sons doctor, he needs no special care other than a clean, loving environment and periodic check ups. She suggested he may need early childhood intervention in the near future, but is fine to be released to his parents.

5. He was born full term. 7lbs 4.8 ounces. stressful labor. He swallowed meconium during labor and as a result aspirated it into his lungs. He was kept alive on a respirator for over 1 week. After 4 weeks of recovery, he was medically discharged to our care by the hospital. DYFS quickly stepped in and put a hospital hold and took us to court.

6. I have filed for paternity and am now his legal father in NY state.

7. his mom hasn't tested positive for any substance. However, the child was positive at birth for opiates, because she informed the hospital of her use shortly before delivery.

8. There were no abnormal problems during labor. Some itching but thats more related to a scar tissue on her stomach and natural itching a streching stomach.

We weren't informed of our court hearing until the day before. And I only knew about it because I called them. We weren't served any papers or order to show cause. At court we weren't allowed to show any of the 6 letters from the nurses and doctors or any other evidence to support our argument. Though DYFS was able to show eveidence. We were given another court date and the judge said I could present my evidence then.

I will look into borrowing money for a lawyer, but it could run me over $5000. Thats hard for me right now.

I'm still dumbfounded by the nurses involvement and reccomendations. I think it's illegal what she did and a doctor at the hospital told me so as well. He said she could not obtain medical information over the phone wihtout verifying who she is talking to. Her recommendations seem to be the most damaging evidence DYFS has against me.

As far as jurisdiction goes. I told the judge this child is not in NJ jursidiction and she ignored my request. Even though I told her he was born in NYC, his mother resided in NYC, She has NY medicaid. He has NY birth certificate, NY medicaid, NY doctors. He has never been to NJ. The only person who officially lives in NJ is me. And I have his crib here and all his clothes becasue I was making plans for him to move in with me after his birth. But DYFS is making that immposible now.

loving father
mk

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Thank you for the detailed response.
Contact legal aid in NYC for assistance if you cannot afford an attorney, ask them to help you file for emergency custody orders in NYC based on the fact that NYC has jurisdiction over mom, child (both NYC residents) and since you signed the acknowledgement of paternity in NYC, YOU ACCEPTED PERSONAL JURISDICITON, you will petition the judge to have a UCCJA CONFERENCE with the judge in NJ to transfer the case to NYC and to strike all hearsay evidence entered in evidence by the nurse who exceeded their scope of practice and contridicts the actual testimony of the treating medical providers. You have proceeded in good faith with their proposed reunification plan.

Later when this is settled, file a complaint with the NJ nursing board.

If they do this, great, if not petition the court in NYC to appoint a Guardian ad Litem called a law Guardian to represent the child's best interest. Here is a link to the family courts in NYC. New York City Family Court
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/family/whoswho.shtml

1. I did inform the social workers and the doctor. They were appalled at her assessment. The social worker insists there is no way she could've made that determination based on their conversation. The doctor says her diagnosis is false.

2. I do have a letter from the doctor stating he is medically sound and should not be considered fragile or with special needs. I have 6 letters from various nurses and social workers in NY with nothing but high recommendations for us.

Good, but you need their sworn testimony, make sure their letter's/declarations are prepared and comply to the rules of court, when this is done, file them with the court before your court date in both states depending on what happens at court in NYC.

3. The maternal grandmother has moved in with me to help take care of my son incase he is placed with me, while I go to work.

Interesting, is she competent? Will she be willing to limit mom's access to the child, I ask this because they may figure that her mom will allow free access and no supervision, mom may have to have supervised visitation by an agency at first, otherwise your custody could be threatened.

4. According to my sons doctor, he needs no special care other than a clean, loving environment and periodic check ups. She suggested he may need early childhood intervention in the near future, but is fine to be released to his parents.

Great, be sure to contact the state NY department of developmental disabilities for early intervention assessment, this will be a part of your evidence that you are doing everything possible to competently care for your child, you might also take a parenting class without being ordered.

5. He was born full term. 7lbs 4.8 ounces. stressful labor. He swallowed meconium during labor and as a result aspirated it into his lungs. He was kept alive on a respirator for over 1 week. After 4 weeks of recovery, he was medically discharged to our care by the hospital. DYFS quickly stepped in and put a hospital hold and took us to court.

Full term excellent and perfectly average size baby, there are reasons for swallowing meconium inutero and they have nothing to do with testing positive for opates, that is why I asked about the itching.

6. I have filed for paternity and am now his legal father in NY state.

Most EXCELLENT!!!!! This gives NY state personal jurisdiction over you even though you live in NJ and plan to move the child there with the courts permission.

7. his mom hasn't tested positive for any substance. However, the child was positive at birth for opiates, because she informed the hospital of her use shortly before delivery.

This is mandated reporting, what did she take, that oculd be very important.

8. There were no abnormal problems during labor. Some itching but thats more related to a scar tissue on her stomach and natural itching a streching stomach.

Did her OB/GYN treat the itching? Was it reported? Did they do any liver function tests on her prior to birth? There is a condition called ICP that causes Meconium staining, it is a build up of "sludge" that isn't processed by mom's liver during pregnancy. The itching can drive a pregnant woman to distraction, especially if they are not treated. Itching during pregnancy is not normal and should be brought to the attention of her doctors. Because this condition resolves at birth for mom it is unlikely that there would still be evidence of it after all this time and can affect future pregnancies. I bring this up as this could be a mitigating factor at some point in the process. http://www.itchymoms.com/

We weren't informed of our court hearing until the day before. And I only knew about it because I called them. We weren't served any papers or order to show cause. At court we weren't allowed to show any of the 6 letters from the nurses and doctors or any other evidence to support our argument. Though DYFS was able to show eveidence. We were given another court date and the judge said I could present my evidence then.

I will look into borrowing money for a lawyer, but it could run me over $5000. Thats hard for me right now.

I'm still dumbfounded by the nurses involvement and reccomendations. I think it's illegal what she did and a doctor at the hospital told me so as well. He said she could not obtain medical information over the phone wihtout verifying who she is talking to. Her recommendations seem to be the most damaging evidence DYFS has against me.

As far as jurisdiction goes. I told the judge this child is not in NJ jursidiction and she ignored my request. Even though I told her he was born in NYC, his mother resided in NYC, She has NY medicaid. He has NY birth certificate, NY medicaid, NY doctors. He has never been to NJ. The only person who officially lives in NJ is me. And I have his crib here and all his clothes becasue I was making plans for him to move in with me after his birth. But DYFS is making that immposible now.

loving father
mk

 

[mkultra]

Thank you soooo much. Your information has been most helpful. Based on your advice and info I've done extensive research online. Seems clear though that me and my girlfriend will have two seperate cases though. The fact that I still live in NJ hasn't changed. I am willing to give her custody if it means saving him the trauma of having to be placed in a foster home. The ACS case worker initially assigned to our child is also in shock that NJ has proceeded in this aggresive manner, especially towards me. She has already told us that based on the merits of our situation, NY may not have even taken this to court and as long as mom would comply with their plan, she wouldn't have been denied custody, until she stopped compliance. But she said based on my record, NYC would've let him live with me with no problem as long as I could've provided day care for him, which I can.

Tomorrow, we will see what happens. If NJ insists that my son be placed in a foster home, then my girlfriend will have to ask NY for emergency jurisdiction and try and keep him in NYC where he was born. If NJ, allows him to be placed at home with me, then we might keep the case in NJ, because I have another hearing on Oct. 19th in which I will probably ask for sole custody.

quote: Interesting, is she competent? Will she be willing to limit mom's access to the child, I ask this because they may figure that her mom will allow free access and no supervision, mom may have to have supervised visitation by an agency at first, otherwise your custody could be threatened.

YES. her mom is very upset at her for what she's done and is 100% on my side. Besides, she will only stay at my home 3 days of the week and my mother the other 4 days. Neither of us are in any way willing to jeopordize our rights to have my son. Mom will be 100% compliant and so will we.

quote: Great, be sure to contact the state NY department of developmental disabilities for early intervention assessment, this will be a part of your evidence that you are doing everything possible to competently care for your child, you might also take a parenting class without being ordered.

YES. We had already discussed that with a social worker in NYC and had already agreed it would be a good idea. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to keep him home. One of his Doctor's concerns is that he be kept in tranquil environment. I think shifting him around from place to place will ad stress to his health and contradicts his doctor's advice.

quote: Most EXCELLENT!!!!! This gives NY state personal jurisdiction over you even though you live in NJ and plan to move the child there with the courts permission.

How exactly does this work? How does NY have personal jurisdiction over me? Will I eventually be able to move my son back to NJ? I suppose by then the circumstances will be different for DYFS and their involvment minimal?

quote: This is mandated reporting, what did she take, that oculd be very important.

Yes I understand it was mandated and it should be. Can't argue with that law. She took opiates and methadone. However, she didn't use that much but used close enough to delivery that it showed up in his system. His toxicollogy level was low and he experienced very little signs of withdrawal. The doctors labelled it as moderate, though from my observations it seemed minor. They use a score sheet based on baby's behaviour. But if you look at that score sheet, the behaviour they score him on could be that of any newborn, positive or not. A colicy baby could easily be considered a withdrawing baby. A baby with reflux could show signs of withdrawal as per that score sheet. And infact, it turned out that he was having reflux and lots of gas for weeks before they figured it out, which led to a higher daily score and a diagnosis of moderate withdrawal. There is no science used in determining his symtpoms.

quote: Did her OB/GYN treat the itching? Was it reported? Did they do any liver function tests on her prior to birth? There is a condition called ICP that causes Meconium staining, it is a build up of "sludge" that isn't processed by mom's liver during pregnancy. The itching can drive a pregnant woman to distraction, especially if they are not treated. Itching during pregnancy is not normal and should be brought to the attention of her doctors. Because this condition resolves at birth for mom it is unlikely that there would still be evidence of it after all this time and can affect future pregnancies. I bring this up as this could be a mitigating factor at some point in the process.

This is most interesting. I don't know the answers to all these questions but will look into it. The meconium is another serious issue which we plan on taking up with the hospital after baby is released and custody has been established.

Thanks again. You've been very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to help.

MK

 

[simpleguy05]

Ok maybe I'm just retarded, but since when do NURSES diagnose ANYTHING like that? Isn't that what a DOCTOR is for?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

You are welcome and keep us updated.

Since you esablished paternity in NY, you can petition the courts in NY for custody and to relocate the child to NJ it's not like it is taking the child across the country just across the bridge! Your petition is less likely to be challenged than hers.

Here is a link that explains much of the custody and jurisdiction issues, it is designed for women but it can help you both, give them a call perhaps they can give you a referal to an attorney, there is a self help link also.

http://www.womenslaw.org/NY/NY_custody.htm

 

[mjpull]

thinking the same thing

Ok maybe I'm just retarded, but since when do NURSES diagnose ANYTHING like that? Isn't that what a DOCTOR is for?

While reading through this, I was thinking the same thing!!

I know they can give their opinions, but any kind of diagnosis should come from a doctor, shouldn't it?

 

[mkultra]

You are welcome and keep us updated.

Since you esablished paternity in NY, you can petition the courts in NY for custody and to relocate the child to NJ it's not like it is taking the child across the country just across the bridge! Your petition is less likely to be challenged than hers.

Here is a link that explains much of the custody and jurisdiction issues, it is designed for women but it can help you both, give them a call perhaps they can give you a referal to an attorney, there is a self help link also.

http://www.womenslaw.org/NY/NY_custody.htm

Thanks again for all your help. Well we spent the day trying to do everything within our limited power to follow your advice but all we got all day was the run-arounds from these huge government beuracracies. Most people we spoke to had no idea and didn't know how to proceed with this. we went to family court in brooklyn where my girlfriend lives and they got nasty with us and told us we had to fight this in Jersey. I got number after number after number. Kept getting shifted here and there.

Makes me realize that those with money have it much easier in life. If I had the money for a private attorney, this would never have reached this chaotic state. I would never have gotten so caught up in this system. But unfortunately reality is, I don't have the financial means to fight this system, even though its obvious I'm in the right and an injustice has been done against me here.

I will not give up though. I finally spoke to my public defender for 5 minutes today. She gave me no hope. I don't think she can help. I've gotten more help from you on this forum than anyone else I've spoken to.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Thanks again for all your help. Well we spent the day trying to do everything within our limited power to follow your advice but all we got all day was the run-arounds from these huge government beuracracies. Most people we spoke to had no idea and didn't know how to proceed with this. we went to family court in brooklyn where my girlfriend lives and they got nasty with us and told us we had to fight this in Jersey. I got number after number after number. Kept getting shifted here and there.

Makes me realize that those with money have it much easier in life. If I had the money for a private attorney, this would never have reached this chaotic state. I would never have gotten so caught up in this system. But unfortunately reality is, I don't have the financial means to fight this system, even though its obvious I'm in the right and an injustice has been done against me here.

I will not give up though. I finally spoke to my public defender for 5 minutes today. She gave me no hope. I don't think she can help. I've gotten more help from you on this forum than anyone else I've spoken to.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

Petition the court to appoint a Law guardian for your child in the borough where the child is in the hospital, is that Brooklyn?Did you contact
http://www.womenslaw.org/NY/NY_custody.htm ?

 

[mkultra]

Petition the court to appoint a Law guardian for your child in the borough where the child is in the hospital, is that Brooklyn?Did you contact
http://www.womenslaw.org/NY/NY_custody.htm ?

We did that. My girlfriend went to Family Court in Brooklyn, Petition room. They were nasty to her. She asked and I also asked that a Law Guardian be appointed to him. They said only a Judge can order that and an active case needs to be open with ACS for a judge to do that. We just kept hitting brick walls all day. I did look at that website and it all seems very clear to me that my son is in NY jurisdiction, but how to get NY to step in has been our problem. Family Court in Brooklyn insisted that for us to do that we would have to go through NJ, but according to all the info I've read, that would have to be done from NY. Its all very confusing and no one seems to know the answers. We have one more chance tomorrow that my son will be placed with me until our next hearing in NJ. Lets see what happens. Thanks

 

[mkultra]

Actually, he is in a NYC hospital, but her address is in Brooklyn and the original case was reffered to Brooklyn.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

http://www.womenslaw.org/NY/NY_links.htm go to this page and start contacting the law sites in Brooklyn starting with the ones towards the end that offer legal services as opposed to domestiv violence.